r/Picard • u/r_picard_bot • Feb 20 '20
Episode Spoilers [S1E5] "Stardust City Rag" - Discussion Thread Spoiler
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u/reubensandwichforme Feb 20 '20
One Eyed French Pirate Picard jesus fucking christ do I laugh or cry
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u/Bex9Tails Feb 20 '20
NGL I thought this episode was going to be terrible based on the preview alone. But I loved it. Even pimptastic Rios and bad French bond villain Picard
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u/The_Facemelter Feb 20 '20
Based on the "Ready Room" interview with Evangora, this is apparently how Patrick Stewart actually is on set. Definitely campy but my God after the way it butchers people for fun this show can use all the lightness it can get!
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u/Tarbal81 Feb 22 '20
Both. I love that the group sees the whole thing as ridiculous and they doubt their own abilities to act. I really liked that they spent some time doing some acting coaching for those who need it.
Also...fuck the doctor. I hate when humans listen to Romulans. Romulans are liars. It would be like listening to Soviet propaganda in the 80's. Or, like...facebook today.
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u/LednergS Feb 22 '20
The show works, because it doen't take itself too serious. I like it a lot.
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u/joshooah Feb 20 '20
Name dropped Quark. That was pleasant.
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u/txn_gay Feb 20 '20
Also "Mr. Mot's Hair Emporium." Mot was the barber on the Enterprise.
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u/RachelBee86 Feb 20 '20
I missed it because people were being noisy in the break room. Around what scene is Quark mentioned?
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u/SleepWouldBeNice Feb 20 '20
He was a reference for Rio that the reptilian bodyguard mentioned.
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u/rustydoesdetroit Feb 20 '20
“I’m so sorry, My Child” 😭😭😭
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u/Bex9Tails Feb 20 '20
Holy crap. I replayed that scene three times over. The way she got her voice to break when saying that line. Eyes got wet, NGL
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u/UncleTogie Feb 21 '20
Eyes got wet, NGL
Ditto. I was not prepared to see Icheb go like that.
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u/gcalpo Feb 21 '20
Yet every time Kai Winn says it, people get upset. /s
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u/OkToBeTakei Feb 21 '20
rrrrRRRRAAAA!
Ugh, I fucking hate her! Louise Fletcher did such an amazing job with making people hate that character!
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u/ckwongau Feb 20 '20 edited Feb 20 '20
Must Watch Star Trek Voyager S7e02 "Imperfection" before you watch this episode
The "cortical Node" reference will be important
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u/JetpackRescue Feb 20 '20
He gave his to seven when hers started failing, he survived because he was still young and his body hadn't become as dependent on it, if I recall correctly.
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u/Grease2310 Feb 20 '20
Exactly... and that's why this whole scene is super tragic even more so than it would have been otherwise. They were cutting apart looking for something he didn't even have because his "mother" seven had it...
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u/jedivulcan Feb 20 '20
Icheb didn't have a cortical node after that episode.
yet they were still trying to get one out of him?
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u/ComebackShane Feb 20 '20
They assumed he had one (as all Borg normally do) and they were hopelessly digging through him to find it. Makes it even more tragic.
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Feb 20 '20
"I didn't get one?!?!"
Loved the ultra-targeted holo-popup ads--
Picard the tea aficionado
Foremost expert on synthetic life "Aggie" Jurati gets one for Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots
Stoner Raffi
" Boy-racer ship modder Rios
But poor li'l refugee sister-boy Elnor who grew up dirt poor in a convent reading paper books with zero social media footprint got totally ignored! 😂😂😂
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u/asoap Feb 21 '20
Ha! That's true. He has no browser cookie info to be tracked. That's a good catch.
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u/Mykrroft Feb 21 '20 edited Feb 21 '20
I could be mistaken but I thought they were trying to hire Aggie. "Entertainment Robotics is now hiring".. I mean she sounds qualified right!? lol
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u/KidsWontSleep Feb 22 '20
Star Trek has always given me hope for the future. But pop-up ads are more annoying than ever. Damn.
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u/Cretanfish Feb 20 '20
Icheb! 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭.
I can’t right now
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u/terriblehuman Feb 20 '20
That was so brutal. But it definitely brings some emotional weight to where we find 7 today. I hope she becomes a series regular.
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u/The_Facemelter Feb 20 '20
Agreed. Really hard to watch. Even worse to remember watching. Ick. But it does give needed heft to her character now – and makes it satisfying when she gets some revenge.
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Feb 20 '20
He deserved better. Good to know though he made it into Starfleet.
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u/ComebackShane Feb 20 '20
And a Lieutenant! Harry Kim probably had to call him sir.
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u/AdamHulten916 Feb 20 '20
Same, I was watching it like wtf man. Now they have to do a Voyager miniseries
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Feb 21 '20
I choose to believe that a few years down the line, Q junior finds out what happened to his buddy Itchy and revives him
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u/ckwongau Feb 20 '20 edited Feb 20 '20
just Additional information about Icheb ,his story is even more tragic if you know his background story 😭
Icheb was bio genetically -engineered before his birth to be a weapon against the Borg ,his parent sent him as young child to the Borg as a bait to be assimilated .
after assimilation his body released a virus that killed the an entire Borg Cube , and only 5 neonatal drone children ( included Icheb) survived
After Voyager rescued him ,onboard Voyager , Seven had a close mother Child-like relationship to Icheb
months later Voyager found his parent , only his parent tried to send him back to the Borg collective as weapon to kill more Borg . But Voyager crew saved him again .
only for him to died like that years later in Alpha Quadrant 😭
just another happier fun fact
Icheb was the first to discovery B'Elanna Torres 's pregnancy ( even before B'Elanna knew it herself ) , he identified a second lifeform inside her body ,and believed to be an alien parasite .
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u/Jizznut Feb 20 '20
They also ripped out his eye to go digging for his cordical node as they hadn't been able to find it. Icheb does not have one, have as he gave his to 7 to save her life.
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u/ckwongau Feb 20 '20
the doctor had already replace to his original Borg Eyes piece . His ocular implant were just normal Federation technologies ( not worth the trouble to steal ) , they were digging into his head to search his cortical Node
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u/Skinstretched Feb 21 '20
I can't get over how much bajazal looks like deanna troi
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u/Torley_ Feb 21 '20
It would've been cool if Bjayzl was ALSO a Betazoid being able to read minds or tell if someone's lying, instead of that big hulking dude. Though it was amusing.
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u/PrincessLeiasCat Feb 21 '20
SAME!
I was like oh wow, Troi - they kept that under wraps!
I was actually texting my friend who had already seen it. “WTF Troi?”
He was like keep watching....
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u/RichardYing Feb 20 '20
Seven, the ex-Borg Fenris Ranger from the Delta Quadrant, is irresistible.
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u/gahidus Feb 21 '20
I loved everything about her in this episode. She's a legendary space ranger! This episode was great!
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Feb 20 '20
Can we just stop for a moment and acknowledge what a gem Jonathan Frakes is?
I’ve enjoyed the episodes he directs more than anything. He truly brings the history of the series to bear.
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u/ahufana Feb 20 '20
So next week's obligatory flashback intro is the Aggie Jurati backstory, right? Start with whatever Bruce was talking about with her "contribution," then cut to her little meeting with Commodore Shades Tomita.
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Feb 20 '20
Maybe.
But I think they may save that one until she’s outed by the crew and you find out what the big secret she knows actually is.
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u/KotoElessar Feb 20 '20
Please state the nature of the psychiatric emergency
Me, the first time it happens: neat
Me, the second time: USELESS EMH! DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN LET YOURSELF BE DEACTIVATED!
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u/RedFlashyKitten Feb 21 '20
Clearly the upgrade the Doctor received didn't make it into mainstream EMH-series. Imagine all the EMH could decide about their deactivation.
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u/thoughtsandairs Feb 20 '20
The actress playing Bjayzl (Necar Zadegan) is a ringer (styling helps) for a young Marina Sirtis. Loved the characterization. Femme fatale. Arch. Fantastic name. Good villain of the week--happy to see some episodic elements that work.
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u/bobbagum Feb 21 '20
Oh, is that how her name's spelled? I heard Vajazzle the whole time
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u/YetAnotherWTFMoment Feb 21 '20
I like the intimation that they were more than just 'friends'.
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u/gahidus Feb 21 '20
The resemblance was almost distracting. I loved her outfit and the whole aesthetic of the bar and it's patrons.
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u/RalphtheCheese Feb 20 '20
The moment she began asking about that cordical node and i saw the nose ridge, aaaaaww noooo, NOT ICHEB!
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u/shadowh511 Feb 21 '20
Same, I said "oh shit" out loud once I heard the scavenger talk about the cortical node.
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u/Evildanish Feb 20 '20
So the opening was 13 years ago. Three years after finding The Artifact. I find myself wondering where all of these XBs come from. Seven and Icheb came from Voyager. Hugh, I guess, will he explained at some point, since the last time we saw him he was still all borged up on some planet with others from HIS ship, which isn’t The Artifact.
Apparently Borg tech is chaching on the black market. But to what end?
I love this show.
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u/Fugglymuffin Feb 21 '20
Apparently Borg tech is chaching on the black market. But to what end?
Its all an elaborate new Borg assimilation strategy, with the intent to spread Borg components far and wide, before reactivating once properly saturated.
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u/marcuzt Feb 20 '20
But to what end?
Have you watched VOY? A lot of latinum for Borg-tech.
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u/dickdick_goose Feb 20 '20
Damn. Dr was a plant.
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u/Listener42 Feb 20 '20
When they cut away to her face while Picard was talking to Maddox in sickbay, I knew. Which I suppose was the point of why Frakes directed it that way.
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u/Major_Spoyler Feb 20 '20
Not quite. I don't know what the Zhat Vash have over Agnes, but she clearly loved Maddox and it pained her greatly to kill him. She mentioned what "they" (still assuming Zhat Vash) showed her, which must have been terrifying enough to warrant the extreme action of killing Maddox.
Did she do it because she considered Maddox as dangerous? That he would do anything to protect his synthetic progeny, while Agnes now believes Soji must be destroyed? It's strongly implied that Agnes now sees Soji as grave a threat as the Romulans do, which is tearing her apart, because Soji's very existence is like her life's dream come true.
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Feb 20 '20
She mentioned what "they" (still assuming Zhat Vash)
Raffi's conspiracy rant leads me to believe it's not exclusively Zhat Vash doing all of this, and there are likely some kind of federation ties as well.
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u/ckwongau Feb 20 '20
Maddox said something about Agnes contribution was essential , i think maybe she was also the designer of the girls or she is the genetic donor , either way she is girls' mother . i think they may have show her the Romulan prophecy and she is convince Soji is the destroyer .
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u/chadsmalley Feb 20 '20
That was well-played, I have to say… before that last scene, they really made an effort to make her likable in this episode. I kinda figured she was there for the wrong reasons, but I kept hoping it wasn't true.
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u/BlocktimusPrime Feb 21 '20
I've not trusted her since she "just so happened" to pop in at the right moment and kill a romulan assassin out of nowhere when she had no reason to be anywhere but the other side of the planet, and basically RIGHT after talking to oh. Oh finds her, shows her whatever has her fucked up, then sends her to picard as a sleeper. My only question is whether picard is already aware or not. I find it hard to believe he isn't, considering how obviously orchestrated her entrance was at the chateau, but the event wasn't brought up at all between the career officer and the two former assassin spies, so who knows...
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u/ahufana Feb 20 '20
I'm happy they didn't drag out that surprise/not-a-surprise any longer. Now we can focus on why she's there, why she did what she did.
I remain hopeful it's all for some greater cause, and that Dr. Jurati isn't just straight-up bad. They've given her far too many endearing moments to pull that off.
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u/Argular Feb 22 '20
I thought this episode was good, but extremely dark for Trek. Maybe that's why they decided to do the whole "dress up in campy disguises" bit.
Just imagine these "previews" for VOY and TNG....
- Next week on Star Trek Voyager! Icheb is brutally tortured for his Borg implants, including getting his eye ripped out! Seven comes to the rescue... only she's too late and mercy kills him, and then she tracks down the woman who tortured Icheb and kills her and her bodyguards too.
-Next week on Star Trek: The Next Generation! Picard's former first officer sees her estranged son for the first time in years! She cries about being "clean" after extensive drug use and begs to come back into his life...only for him to reject her and tell her to leave.
-Next week on Stark Trek: The Next Generation! Dr. Bruce Maddox, genius cyberneticist, is found! Only to be painfully killed on a biobed by his former lover.
I just have to get used to this. I mean, there were some "dark" DS9 episodes, but nothing like this.
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u/Del_Duio2 Feb 22 '20
I mean, there were some "dark" DS9 episodes, but nothing like this.
DS9 could be dark at times but they never had to go balls deep like that horrible Icheb opener. That's not Trek, that's shock value for shock value's sake. You could have shot that scene differently and lost none of the impact with Seven afterwards.
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Feb 20 '20
Overall a very intense crazy ride. I certainly did not see Dr J's actions coming. She's been hard for me to take. I don't like deliberately awkward characters because being someone scientific, who always was socially awkward, I hate the trope when it fails.
Jeri did an incredible job. And I was howling with glee at her ending actions. You don't cut people open without killing them or anesthetizing them to feel nothing. I wish her death had been as painful as Icheb's
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Feb 20 '20 edited Feb 20 '20
Another phenomenal episode! With so many great callbacks!
Loved the feel of the Freecloud mission: started out as a fun dress up lark similar to a Holodeck adventure episode, then degenerated into something much darker and poignant.
The ladies killed it this week.
With some awesome emotional beats between Hurd and Pill.
Hopefully they don’t kill off Pill at the end of the season. I’m loving her character and maybe the knowledge she possesses is something that will lead to more death (the Romulans created the Borg!!!) and she feels justified in doing what she’s doing.
But this was clearly Jeri Ryan’s episode and she killed it.
I liked the idea of her as a dark reflection of Picard.
He’s winning back his humanity, but she’s regressing.
Can’t wait until next week when the gang finally gets to infiltrate the Borg cube!
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u/Major_Spoyler Feb 20 '20
But this was clearly Jedi Ryan’s episode and she killed it.
Now I really want to see Seven with a light-saber.
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u/MileHighColorado5280 Feb 20 '20
Anyone else think that Angie is a messed up precursor AI to the other sisters? Who’s all hyped up on emotions?
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u/Major_Spoyler Feb 20 '20
You mean Agnes, right? But damn, you might be onto something. What if Maddox created Agnes? He did say to her how much she had contributed to Darj and Soji's creation.
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u/Tomb55 Feb 20 '20
Once again, story building extravaganza.
The references are great. That opening scene was fucking amazing.
LOVED the voyager theme on Seven's beam out and I love the disappointment towards Picard without being disrespectful.
Rios continues to be my fav. I thought they didn't use Elnor correctly in this episode but I wasn't too fussed.
Yes the casting choices for Bruce and Icheb weren't ideal but as someone else has already suggested the ages wouldn't work.
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u/Dark_Tzitzimine Feb 21 '20
Well that's a pleasant start to an episode
Tranya's strong enough to hide the taste of tranquilizers
Freecloud runs Real Steel matches
Oh god pop up ads found a way to get even worse (also lol at "I didn't get one...")
Seven knows that pimping ain't easy
Picard working out a bit of his own Borg issues there
Ah, there's that TNG moralizing
Patrick's sounding a lot more lively in this episode
I love how the club staff have emergency beamouts ready for when partiers turn violent
Still don't like how phasers are pew pew guns instead of beams nowadays, but at least that was satisfying
Yeah, you could see Agnes killing Maddox coming a mile away, just like how it was obvious when she joined up that she wasn't on the level
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Feb 20 '20
Jesus christ what a way to start the first 5 minutes... Soon as I saw that nose i knew it was Icheb... Didn't think they'd do all that to him... Alive. WTF.
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u/AncientModernBlunder Feb 21 '20
For all Picard's insistance that his crew not kill if they can avoid it, three of them have now murdered the shit outta people.
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u/PGinrestinct Feb 20 '20
[S1E6] Teaser is a Trek lovers DREAM.
Don't spoil yourself, please. I'm not a big fan of CBS in general, but the artwork they support is far beyond expectation.
If I died tonight, it would be pleasant.
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u/Toleron Feb 20 '20
Then perhaps today IS a good day to die.
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u/Major_Spoyler Feb 20 '20
Have enough prune juice, then you will want to, trust me.
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u/Tonkarz Feb 20 '20
Wasn't Seven extra sensitive to Synthehol?
They might be drinking alcohol I guess.
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u/ckwongau Feb 20 '20 edited Feb 21 '20
i remember the voyager episode " Body and Soul "
Seven wants to thank the doctor by having a nice dinner and wine in front of him and describe the human sensation to him , and she comment if the alcohol cause any problem , the doctor will take good care of her .
Now Seven is a social drinker
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u/WhiteSquarez Feb 21 '20
A piece of lore I really liked was the idea of Borg implants changing in number, type, or quality over time.
Someone made the point about Seven being assimilated a long time ago before the Borg changed the implants. I thought that was neat and I would love to see a special or poster or something that describes that evolution of their technology over time.
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u/notaquarterback Feb 21 '20
They go through all that trouble to get to Freecloud, save Maddox and then she kills him? Seems like a waste.
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u/Bender222 Feb 21 '20
Am I the only on that had to research the casting of bjayzl because Necar looked like deanna troi?
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u/stevepic1901 Feb 20 '20
So I’m glad to know those leaked/weaponized “spoilers” that had Maddox as a Trump like demagogue at season’s end were full of steaming horse shit. Means those of us who made the mistake of reading them will now be going into this blind, barring some twist the writers pull out of their ass.
I saw Aggie being a plant but I did NOT expect that.
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u/nimbus__cloud Feb 20 '20
Killing off Icheb was a bit disappointing but I understand why they did it.. as previous commentators mentioned the inappropriate comments of the actor really decided that.
Anyone else think Seven's implants look a bit crap? Her occular implant looks the wrong shape, and too dark with not enough variation in colour of the implant it doesn't look 'real'. Picard doing a french accent was just a bit stupid.. and annoying. Elnor is pretty cute I'm hoping we actually get to know him a little more than the small lines of this week.
I have really been hoping we would see Hugh and Seven interact I know we have a few episodes left but it doesn't seem like Seven is in the next one.. also.. legit thought we were going to get Raffi's son as a pregnant man which would have been great and I think a missed opportunity.
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u/asswhorl Feb 21 '20
the implants looked like 3d printed parts, not metallic at all
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Feb 21 '20
Great episode. Can't believe 50% done. You could tell by her facial expressions while Picard was talking to Maddox that she was going to kill him. If she is working with the Federation , not very Federation like
Liked the Mot's Barbershop and Quarks
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u/filchermcurr Feb 20 '20
I'm having trouble pinning down whether I like the show or not. I kind of miss happy people and... order. There is a lot of darkness and chaos, which I find a little exhausting episode after episode. I'm having trouble articulating it.
Deep Space Nine also got very dark, but we still always had that bedrock of idealistic Starfleet officers to counter the less idealistic among them. There was always the underlying feeling of hope and courage and people who truly believed in, and fought for, a brighter future. Even the seedier elements, like Quark, had some kind of moral imperatives driving them to do the right thing when it came down to it. Even during the war people seemed a lot happier than they do in Picard.
Now it seems like nobody has any hope for a bright future and they fight just for their own individual goals. Picard wants to save a piece of Data because he still feels guilty. The pilot guy just wants to get paid. Seven of Nine continues the Borg mantra of bringing order to chaos, but there is no idealism behind her actions. Justifiable anger, certainly. Everybody just seems so... defeated.
Hopefully as it picks up people will reignite that spark of hope. Maybe I'm just viewing the other shows through rose-tinted glasses. I knew going in that the tone of the show would be different, I just expected a little more... I don't know. Articulating feelings is hard! I miss the Federation.
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u/loveandwifi Feb 20 '20
To me, this show is about what happens when an ideal you stand for becomes corrupted by short-sightedness, bigotry, and corruption. It speaks to the fact that for every great step and achievement we make, there are always unseen and unintended consequences that sometimes takes decades and in some cases, centuries to resolve. The show challenges preconceived notions of what Utopia is, that even with all the advances in science and technology; the sharing of cultures and traditions between an interplanetary federation; the eradication of poverty on Earth, we still have in us a potential for darkness and evil and it will always be there. Watching a group of characters all with their own fears and prejudices being led by a figure who represented the best parts of ourselves, the best parts of humanity, guide them and be the voice of their better angels. Picard is the emotional center. What I hope to see is more of Seven. Her character at this point in time is a perfect balance to Picard's idealism. She's the reality to his idealism and presents a perfect opportunity to explore the conflicts that arise from those different perspectives.
I do hope you stick with it. You sound like you really love Trek.
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u/bluestarcyclone Feb 21 '20
On some level, star trek has often been a mirror of society (particularly american society, as ST was initially an america-focused show) in general. A lot of metaphors to current\recent events.
We never had the utopia they had in the federation, but we had times that were much more optimistic. Times when we at least had the ideal that we were leading a free world. People see star trek and think its always been optimistic, but they also watched it during the 60s and especiallly the 90s, when the world was very much more optimistic than it is today.
I dont think it is a coincidence that this show takes place about the same length of time after a terrorist attack as we are after 9\11. We're being given a bit of a mirror back on the consequences of that- the darkness that's developed, the ideals abandoned, or even the exposure of where we weren't really living up to those ideals in the first place and it was just a veneer.
I'm interested to see where they take this metaphor.
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u/cryptoboy4001 Feb 20 '20
TNG was made in the late 80's to the mid 90's.
I don't know how old people in this sub are generally, but I remember that time as a period of great optimism on all fronts:
Technologically (e.g. personal computers were becoming ubiquitous, the web was just starting up, etc.)
Economically (e.g. great job prospect, markets were booming)
Politically (e.g. relations with the west's greatest foe were warming, and the soviet union ultimately fell).
TNG was a reflection of that optimism for the future ... an expectation that we'll be able to create a utopian future.
But today? In the post 9-11 world, everything slowly started turning to shit. First there was war, then economic collapse, now extreme politcal divisons ... and it's hard to be optimistic in a world like that.
Picard is a reflection of that pessimism for the future ... an expectation that we'll never be able to create a utopian future.
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u/nobelsonsss Feb 20 '20
Here's why I don't have a problem with how dark this show is: because it knows how to be light. Both Episodes 4 & 5 open with them heading to a new planet, bickering as a team/family but in a fun way (I mean, look at tonight's dress ups). Rios, Elnor AND Jurati are used as comic relief, Raffi is like a mother to everyone, then the episode proceeds to darker themes once they beam down. Still, there is a progression - a little bit of everything, and I feel it's much easier to enjoy this crew than Discovery's...
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u/Listener42 Feb 20 '20
I kind of miss happy people and... order.
You want The Orville, then.
Which isn't to say I don't love Picard, because I do, but when I want happy people and order I go to The Orville.
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Feb 21 '20
Ohhh no I'm willing to bet Picard can change the landscape back. You've seen what hes already done the moment he stepped out of his shell. I think hes just getting started.
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u/fansometwoer Feb 21 '20
Depressed recluse octaganerian. Narcissistic, possible schizophrenic Captain, autistic Romulan, drug addict who abandoned her child, and now boyfriend-murdering doctor.
I'm loving it. Not sure Gene Roddenberry would though.
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u/Raspberries-Are-Evil Feb 22 '20
Was the loan shark Marina Sertis’a daughter? She looked just like her!
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Feb 22 '20
I love how jaded Seven has gotten. She came back from The Delta Quadrant like bambi learning to walk, and to see how rebellious, so intransigent, so charismatic she has become, it’s such a perfect path to have taken the character.
She was one of my favourite characters on Voyager and I she’s quickly becoming my favourite on Picard.
Hoping for The Doctor to make an appearance so we get a hipster cover of “You are my sunshine”!
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u/kurtzenter Feb 20 '20
Nobody mentioned the voyager theme song after Seven says "Every damn day of my life."?!
Soooo good!
Time: 36:30min https://i.imgur.com/iBwyQW8.jpg
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u/Stellaknight Feb 21 '20
Oh, that opening was heart-breaking.
When Seven is talking about the formation of the Fenris Rangers, she uses the phrasing "Some of us tried to maintain order.." which makes me wonder if a lot of the Fernris Rangers were disgruntled Starfleet (or even ex-Voyager crew). The name Fenris comes from the planet they're based on. They also moved in more or less immediately after the Federation pulled out, which speaks again for their rather impressive levels of organization . Icheb apparently took leave from Starfleet and was helping out when he was lured into an ambush and captured, so there seems to have been a bit of a win-and-nod acceptance of the rangers by Starfleet, at least at the beginning.
We're now at the end of the released soundtrack (What is your Emergency played over the final scene).
I hope its revealed that the conspiracy extends to the Romulan supernova itself. For starters, stars don't just randomly explode--they get really, really weird for hundreds of thousands of years before going supernova. Basically, someone should've noticed (such as the Romulans who apparently settled there only a few thousand years ago). There' are other reasons this is a silly plot point, but If I get started in a science rant I'll never stop.
Favorite quote: "You need a feather in your hat" not only because it's Seven who says it, but because she's right (the Doctor would be proud)
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u/bobreturns1 Feb 21 '20 edited Feb 21 '20
The detail in this show is incredible. The love of the canon is palpable. They were looking for Icheb's cortical node and couldn't find it. But of course he doesn't have one anymore, it was transplanted into Seven. The writers really did their homework. They even use the voyager theme at the end of Picard and Seven's humanity discussion. Great stuff.
Also, Tranya!
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u/Bex9Tails Feb 20 '20 edited Feb 20 '20
Anyone think that Seven and Jay had a romantic relationship? Because it seemed like there was nothing heterosexual about the way they were glaring at each other. Like maybe Jay seduced her. It would explain why Seven shared such vital info with her. There was also a lot of double-meaning behind the words they were saying to each other, for sure.
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u/ConsonantlyDrunk Feb 20 '20
anyone else having problems getting this through amazon tonight?
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u/antdude Feb 20 '20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgbSllkc2lM for ScreenCrush's Star Trek - PICARD- Every Easter Egg in Episode 5 + Breakdown & Theories
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u/bigwilly144 Feb 22 '20
I wonder if the secret of the zhat vash has something to do with control from discovery.
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u/HumanityPlague Feb 20 '20
They couldn't even get Manu Intiraymi or Brian Brophy back for their respective roles.
What the fuck?
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u/rrrx Feb 20 '20
Manu Intiraymi
At the time of his death in 2386 as shown in Picard, Icheb was just 8 years older than he was at the end of Voyager. Given that Manu Intiraymi is currently 41 years old, and looks it, that might have been a pretty tough sell. They probably could have pulled it off, but if that was really the only scene with him it seems like a lot of effort to go to for pure fan service.
Brian Brophy
There's already a 17 year age difference between John Ales and Alison Pill -- perhaps going with Brophy (if he even would have been interested) and making that a 27 year age difference seemed like a bad idea.
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u/Listener42 Feb 20 '20
Brian Brophy stopped working in 2014, but they could at least have found an actor who looks a little like him.
The guy who played Icheb, I thought it was Intiraymi. So, good casting there.
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u/ComebackShane Feb 20 '20
I'm curious if the actors were approached; but since both are in and out in one episode, they might've passed on the offer.
Brian Bophy (original Maddox) hasn't worked in a while according to his IMDb, he might be out of the industry.
Manu Intiraymi is still working, and according to his Twitter, interested in reprising the role, but clearly that didn't happen.
One possibility, based on just how strong Jeri Ryan's performance was (seriously, she was phenomenal) - maybe we get a series focused on Seven, and Icheb plays the Data role of haunted memory. They seemed to cut around the Icheb actor in this episode, so later recasting him with Intiraymi could be done.
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u/LordGalen Feb 20 '20
They seemed to cut around the Icheb actor in this episode
Ouch. That is some unfortune phrasing right there.
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u/catnapspirit Feb 20 '20
Really paid off to have finished the novel before this episode..
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Feb 20 '20
Why bring in Icheb just to kill him in the same scene.... what the bleep bleep bleep!!! I love that the show is bringing it out characters to connect this series to the others but did he have to die??? But thats not my big issue with this episode... my issue is that there is a murderer on the ship. I mean Dr Agnes Jurati, well known robotics expert at the Daystrom institute and Murderer!!!?? by the way what kept the EMH from immediately going to the bridge and reporting her to the captain or someone??? I am just saying, i know an EMH and you cant get him to shut up for anything... (nod to DR Zimmerman, Dr Mozart?.... Dr...uhm Robert Picardo)
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u/Mrbogus2you Feb 20 '20
Can't believe they would just throw Ichy away like that. HIS BEST FRIEND Q BEST BRING HIM BACK
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Feb 21 '20
Watching “Collective” rn, Seven being kind to Icheb and beginning to forge their bond, I’m not okay 😭
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u/Clariana Feb 21 '20
That last dialogue between 7 of 9 and Picard, weren´t they tacitly admitting that they couldn´t resist seeking revenge?
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u/strontium-horde Feb 22 '20
Maybe I missed something, but why did Seven need to kill Icheb? Was he so injured that he was beyond medical help? I don’t understand why she didn’t at least try to get him medical attention...
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u/N2TheBlu Feb 22 '20
The suggestion is that he was too damaged and was going to die anyhow. It was a mercy killing.
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u/samuel906 Feb 23 '20
Was anyone else hoping lizard-man was an emancipated Jem Hadar?
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u/Bommelunder Feb 23 '20
Since Icheb and Maddox have already died, I'm afraid that it could hit Hugh and Raffi in the season as well.
Hugh is particularly at risk because of the two Romulan agents with him. I see him trying to save Picard and Soji and die in the process.
As for Raffi: They hadn't shown her son and her granddaughter for no reason. They want us to identify with the character. So that her death is more important -> in contrast to Airiam
I don't know if I'm imagining it, but I have the feeling that the mortality rate will be high in this series...
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u/traf56 Feb 23 '20
I liked that the hologram adverts were specific to each crew member. Like they reflect what they want or character traits maybe. Tea and class for picard, ship repairs for the cap, and most interestingly a fight for our little assassin.
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u/the_breadlord Feb 21 '20
So... We're halfway through the season and I have some... concerns. The writing is bad, the new characters really seem off and for some reason we now have characters from VOY being vivisected without anaesthesia. On screen. To give Seven of Nine some motivation for helping Picard out. Because apparently now she's a washed-up badass.
As others have noted, this is the TV version of movie Picard. Think I might be done with it.
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u/princefreeze Feb 20 '20
I enjoyed this episode. I feel every episode is better than the one before ( or at least as good!) I think the storylines are interesting, surprising but still true to the characters. I really think they are doing a good job and I'm looking forward to the next episode!
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u/Blameitondeuce Feb 21 '20
Maddox isn’t dead, just you wait — midway through [S2E5] “Notes From Another” he crawls out from under a dumpster.
Quote me.
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u/Pellaeonthewingedleo Feb 21 '20
How dare they ... Icheb
And why didn't Star Fleet came on hard on an organisation that killed an officer
BTW what happened to Seven and Chakotay
Oh, and this is obligatory: There are no wolves on Fenris
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u/ElNorthernCanadian Feb 21 '20
No! Nononononono nope. Icheb cannot be dead. The only possible ending to this series now is time travel.
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u/Starfury7-Jaargen Feb 21 '20
Did Bruce Maddox really die?
If Maddox's lab was destroyed, why are the Zhat Vash still looking for "the nest?" It seems they think there is something more. If someone was REALLY paranoid they just might make a mock up lab and staff it with a flesh synth that actually thinks it was them with no activation code. That way when it dies, it would appear they were dead. Cold trail unless they were too smart.
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u/N2TheBlu Feb 22 '20
What did Rios leave on the console for Seven to pick up? It was just before she gave Picard the device to reach her if needed, then she beamed off the ship.
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u/GrayscaleUnicorn Feb 22 '20
Jeri Ryan is great. I hope they make a lot of stuff using the OG actors if we're getting performances like this (maybe a Borg spinoff too).
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u/errorsniper Feb 21 '20 edited Feb 21 '20
I havent even finished the episode but fuck everything about raffi's kid. I havent even finished the scene yet and I flew off the handle once I figured out why he was upset and needed to come here and rant about it. Hes an asshat and fuck him. I thought she wasnt there because of drugs or addiction or some coping issue after all was said and done and she lost her commission and her life fell apart. Thats reasonable and understandable. But that selfish spoiled shitstain is upset his mom was trying her best to save hundreds of millions of people. It would suck for my mom not to be around. But I would not want my mom to be around if it meant the death of hundreds millions potentially and she was aware of it and could do something about. I would be nothing but proud of my mom. Fuck him. Im already beyond over him. I know hes going to get a lot of screen time but I hope I never see him again.
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u/Professor-Reddit Feb 22 '20
The acting was also really off with that scene, like he was really happy to see her but disdained her at the same time. It just felt like he couldn't master both emotions.
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u/SpaceToad Feb 21 '20
This was... bad. I’m sorry, but there’s plenty of much better shows for if I want dark gritty sci-fi. Whatever this is, it’s not Star Trek.
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u/TyphoonOne Feb 20 '20
Really disappointed they didn't bring the actors for either Icheb or Maddox back. John Ales was great, but I was really hoping we'd see a return from Brian Brophy if they were going to have him on screen.
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u/chadsmalley Feb 20 '20
I know! I was SO looking for to seeing Brophy reprise that role. It just seemed like a given, since we already knew Jonathan Del Arco was coming back. After the first episode I thought maybe they were keeping the casting of Maddox on the down-low for spoiler reasons. Now I think they kept it quiet just to quell potential fan backlash.
And just as I was starting to like the new Maddox he freaking dies! Brian Brophy or not, it would have been so wonderful to see Picard and Maddox revisit the philosophical themes from "Measure of a Man" and explore more fully what what Maddox learned from that experience. Damn it, Agnes.
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Feb 21 '20 edited Feb 22 '20
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I'm liking the show less and less. Picard was really out of character in many of the scenes. I'm seeing too much Patrick Stewart and not much Picard.
And nobody is bothered by the fact we just watched someone's eyeball get pulled out and severed in "Star Trek"!?
I'm going to keep going along and hope it improves. I will say that I did enjoy Jeri Ryan in this episode. She felt like I imagine 7 would probably be after all these years in this strangely dark version of Star Trek.
Wow, my first award. Thank you kind person!
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Feb 21 '20
This episode was fun to watch but absolutely horrific and unoriginal in terms of tropes it used and the outcome.
Fucking OF COURSE .. Aggy, we saw it coming. Boo. Booooo.
Super cool that we got to enjoy Bruce Maddox's character for a solid 1 minute.
What I did enjoy was Picard in character at the exchange. Genuinely laughed -- he made the whole episode better. And once again, pacing is a mess. Almost no real progression.
This episode in a nutshell: We found Bruce. Aaaaand he's gone. Agnes reveal surprised literally nobody. 7 dips out after a quick cameo. Roll credits.
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u/Reggie_Barclay Feb 21 '20
Well, they're getting better at least, maybe because of Frakes? Thought Icheb's ending was a bit ignominious. I really liked his story in Voyager and they owned him more.
Still, seems like they could have done all of this in an episode and a half? Today's episode could have been 10, 15 minutes? The whole side story seemed entirely unnecessary and didn't really tell us anything about the Raffi character. She could have just stayed on the ship and we'd be none the wiser.
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u/jeykool Feb 21 '20
Well produced and full of action, Picard has abandoned allegory for character drama and has a poor understanding of the implications that mastery of energy and mater would have on society. The reunion scene between Raffi and her son, while most likely leading somewhere larger, was particularly cringeworthy on its own.
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u/Tydfil Feb 21 '20
Jurati needs to die for that one! But we say the shes a spy angle coming. Shame they killed maddox and icheb so soon though.
But yes Dr traitor needs to die before the end of this season. No season 2 for her.
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u/Basekid Feb 21 '20
Every episode I hope to get some actual Star Trek vibes.
And again I am dissapointed :(
- Graphic mutilation.
-21st century medical equipment visible, but no tricorder in sight
-Picard not acting like Picard at all
-Pew pew phasers
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Feb 20 '20
Can someone please explain to me how "gratuitous torture porn" became a characteristic of Star Trek to some CBS executive or showrunner? I'm serious here, Star Trek Discovery featured at least three torture scenes in it's first season, the show's wallowed in the muck of honorless, Giger-inspired, creepy Klingons, a weirdly positive portrayal of Section 31, and a dystopic evil mirror universe. Now Star Trek Picard is making a beeline for some kind of capitalist Bladerunner dystopia, but hey there's an implausible reference to Mot the Barber in the background, let's do a total tonal 180 from a guy being sawed apart and having his eye torn out to Captain Picard doing a comic french accent. Fucking what is going on over there? Who is making these decisions?
Somehow this episode managed to blow every last drop of goodwill the show had built up with me over the past 4 episodes. I'm sick of abusive incestuous-vibe Romulan siblings, we get it showrunners, you watched Game of Thrones, I'm sick of torture-porn and contrived, dumb fight scenes, I'm sick of convoluted spy conspiracies and prophecies and every character having a Dark Secret.
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u/Reggie_Barclay Feb 21 '20
Yup. GOT attitude by corporate suits is spoiling a lot of current shows in scifi and fantasy.
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Feb 20 '20
Who else liked hearing the brief Voyager theme after 7 beamed back down?
Also WTF is up with Agnes, I wonder if those Romulan agents got to her?
So many secrets and questions that need answering.
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u/ZanyDroid Feb 21 '20
Curious whether other people think Seven's role on this season is cleanly wrapped up after this episode. It felt like a definite milestone in her life, and they've set up a good recovery arc for her.
A counterargument to this might be that this season is >50% about the artifact and xBs, and it is arguably incongruous that she hasn't been involved with their re-integration. At least worthwhile to explore why she feels that being a Ranger speaks to her more than working with xBs.
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u/sinisterGoddess Feb 21 '20
Loved the Tranya reference. I suppose the First Federation is still around...or Balok sold the recipe.
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u/Thyriel81 Feb 21 '20
Such a fantastic episode. I just don't hope that the "mysterious knowledge" Agnes mentioned at the end comes again from something with timetravel
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u/Ultimus_Rex Feb 22 '20
Such a waste of Icheb. I always hoped he would have a far bigger role in the future of the franchise. Maddox similarly wasted it seems.
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u/zkmronndkrek Feb 23 '20
Seven absolutely destroyed the invincible ultimate power of satans robot in 3 seconds just to get out of “hanging out”. I knew and admire her straight up eminiem song..... you dont wanna $@&@ with seven .... “cause why” ??? Cause seven will $@$@&$@ kill you
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u/Eclipse_101 Feb 23 '20
Why did they remove his eyeball with my dad's old power tools? They couldn't just run him through the transporting with a "delete bio-matter" setting?
also, what is with the talk about currency? This is undoing years of brilliant writing.
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u/VixzerZ Feb 23 '20
Best episode so far for me.
The feels, the sadness and anguish, the sweet revenge!
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u/Starfury7-Jaargen Feb 24 '20
I have been thinking. I think I could have an explanation as to why the EMH ignored Maddox. What if the EMH wasn't real? Dr. Agnes is clearly being pushed to her limits mentally, what if she is having a mental break and the EMH is a delusion? Clearly then it would ignore a murder right in front of it because it is in her mind.
As to an idea that she is a synth, if so, I could imagine her being the destroyer. She is going down a deep dark road with such mental stress, she could be it and it was a confused prophecy.
By the was, this sounded like an extention of Control's plan. Control destryed all life. Could there be a link?
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Feb 25 '20
With the doctors flashback thing with the cookies did anyone else cringe thinking that was her dad or did i miss something? I must have.
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u/DanceswithTacos_ Feb 21 '20
I'm signing off, y'all.
-- someone who watched episodes 1-4 and isn't interested enough in the show so far to watch episode 5.
I'll revisit r/Picard when the season's over to learn what the story ended up being.
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u/2020_X-Ray_Vision Feb 21 '20
I'm pulling the plug on this show. It's just not very good, and this ep was a total cringe-fest with Picard's french character and several forced attempts at humor. I didn't even have high expectations, but I did expect it to be better written, acted and paced. Ah well.
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u/ahufana Feb 20 '20
If your EMH can witness a murder-in-progress and still be deactivated - by the murderer - it's time for some new programming.