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u/reddittothegrave Jan 30 '20
Man that was too short!! I wanted to keep going for another 3 hours.
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u/Mors_ad_mods Jan 30 '20
That was my first post-episode impression. I'd gotten so into it I could have sworn I should only have been half-way through.
I take that as evidence it was a good episode; nothing pulled me out of the story enough to notice the time.
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u/Pareeeee Jan 31 '20
Could be worse - at least they're longer than the Mandalorian's episodes 0_0
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u/WontFixMySwypeErrors Jan 31 '20
Seriously... I felt like I was just getting into the episode when the credits rolled. It was very noticeable!
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Jan 30 '20 edited Jan 30 '20
I'm happily in a room full of fellow nerds watching this.
We all gasped at "pure fucking hubris."
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u/overslope Jan 31 '20
I got far more personally offended than I would have expected. "You can't talk to Captain Picard like that!"
I'm still salty.
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u/ryanhendrickson Jan 31 '20
I made my wife watch with me. I gasped. She was like, what, haven't you heard that word before. I told her that wasn't it, it's that no one can talk to Captain Picard that way. Instantly went from merely disliking that admiral to hating her with the fire of a thousand suns.
I guess I'm still salty, too. Kinda hoping our friendly local Romulan undercovers take her out at some point...
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u/CeruleanRuin Feb 01 '20
Even disregarding the language, her disrespect for Picard was shocking.
I was glad to see she at least didn't dismiss his concerns entirely and followed up by passing them on.
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u/lazylion_ca Feb 01 '20
I think part of the reason for the cursing is to drive home the point that this isn't the same Star Fleet we remember.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_THESES Feb 01 '20
Here’s the thing, Kirk did worse for less noble reasons and got exactly what Picard was asking here!
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Jan 30 '20
I think that if Data had seen how those synths were being treated on Mars, he would have been spitting nails. Even before the emotion chip.
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u/CassRMorris Jan 30 '20
That whole sequence, I just kept thinking about Guinan's speech about "disposable people".
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u/Captain_Jalapeno Jan 30 '20
Forgot about that speech, but was just dumbfounded how slave bots were even allowed to become a thing with Picard still in Starfleet. Are they saying slavebots happened after Data died and Picard left? Data's trial on the Enterprise should have kept those slaves from ever being created. Making them emotionless made that ok? They cant even say that because Data made it all the way to Lt Cmdr without his emotion chip most of his life. Their whole existence at all just creates a lot of logic and plotholes. Maybe they'll come up with a good excuse as to why they were greenlit into service, but damn, Starfleet HAD fallen a long way to allow that.
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u/SnapeWho Jan 30 '20
I was fucking furious through all of that. It was downright cruel.
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u/Isketam Jan 30 '20
Earl Grey has become a recurring element in this show since the first episode, it should get its own character by now.
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u/CeruleanRuin Feb 01 '20
It bothers me irrationally that he takes milk in it. Earl Grey is a citrusy tea. You don't put milk in that!
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u/tomh_1138 Jan 30 '20
"Romulans. They're so predictably treacherous."
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Jan 30 '20
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u/CmdShelby Jan 30 '20 edited Jan 30 '20
I find the sexy new Romulans amusing and couldn't help meming about it...
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u/BigJ76 Jan 30 '20
If there's one thing I hope they answer in this episode is how the Romulans got themselves a Borg cube
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u/agent_uno Jan 30 '20
When they referred to it as The Artifact it made me think the cube was ancient and I started wondering if part of this season will be a birth of the Borg background story. But by the end of the episode it sounded more like just a dead cube. I think this episode asks more questions than it answered.
Still, during the private premier they showed the first 3 eps cut together like a movie, so I’m reserving judgement till next week. I guess this could’ve been Act II of a III act story to set up the season.
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u/JMarkP11 Jan 30 '20
My assumption has been it has something to do with what Janeway did to the Borg in the ST:Voyager series finale. Perhaps it was in the trans-warp corridor when it was brought down and took severe damage when the corridor collapsed.
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u/jrgkgb Jan 30 '20
Solid episode. Glad Geordi survived Utopia Planetia.
Nice callback to All Good Things, I just hope the show isn’t the decline of Picard to Erumatic Sybdrome.
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u/km3k Jan 30 '20
Yeah after Geordi being on Mars in the Picard Countdown comics, I was worried he was killed in the synth attack. It was a big relief to hear Picard refer to him as alive.
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u/SleepWouldBeNice Jan 30 '20
Wonder why they haven't mentioned Crusher yet though.
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u/agent_uno Jan 30 '20
I agree - they left the “diagnosis” as too vague for my tastes. It reminded me of Prof X in Logan.
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u/bardbrain Jan 30 '20
That’s a bit of realism.
Alzheimer’s or other conditions actually require an autopsy to diagnose precisely. Generally, it’s a colloquialism whenever a living person is said to have such a disorder.
I realize, I realize... Future science. But it would appear overall from Star Trek history that instead of being able to clearly diagnose neurological decay, they instead subdivided into more and more specific syndromes. So what WE call dementia is probably 50-60 different diagnoses in Picard’s era and they may know which symptom cluster a person is in but they’re not closer to curing or precisely diagnosing those in the living.
Granted, they banned most genetic research in 1996 in the Star Trek timeline so we may surpass them on that front.
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u/BioMagus Jan 30 '20
THEORY: This is just a small detail but, When Picard was being explained about what the Zhat Vash is by Laris and Zhaban and they describe the hatred the Zhat Vash has for synths' Picard asks why they hate synths so much. Laris responds with I dont know.
I believe it's because the Zhat Vash date back to a time when the Romulans and the Vulcans split due to indifference and the initial conflict between the soon to be two races. The hatred for the synths is because it reminds the Zhat Vash of the purely logical and methodical way of the Vulcans.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see an episode dedicated to a flashback to that time to show the exact moment and reasoning of what started it all.
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u/ckwongau Jan 30 '20
THEORY: This is just a small detail but, When Picard was being explained about what the Zhat Vash is by Laris and Zhaban and they describe the hatred the Zhat Vash has for synths' Picard asks why they hate synths so much. Laris responds with I dont know.
If you Watch Star Trek Discovery , The secretive branch of Section 31 were once took over by their A.I Computer call "control " , it nearly took over the Federation .and after that incident the Reform Section 31 became more secretive and forgotten by the general public
I wonder if the Zhat Vash had similar experience with Artificial Intelligence , and they become more Anti Artificial Intelligence to the point even the Romulan computer are limited to just numerical function
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u/PlatypusGod Jan 31 '20
Or if they had infiltrated Starfleet or the Vulcans, and thus were privy to all those Control shenanigans.
We already know they had agents among the Vulcans in ENT. I don't see why that would stop a hundred or so years later.
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u/PseudonymousDev Jan 30 '20
"Wherever this girl was calling her sister from, it's nowhere on Earth." CUE TENSE MUSIC
Ummm... This is Star Trek. Not being on Earth is not as big a deal as they're making it out to be. The Federation is quite large.
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u/OCJeriko Jan 31 '20
I think the idea of it being so tense was that they are going to have to leave Earth to find her, and its a damn big galaxy. It did seem out of place, but I get the reasoning for it being a "off planet? oh fuck, she's going to be a pain in the ass to find" kind of moment
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u/lemon_cake_or_death Jan 31 '20
Picard doesn't have easy access to a ship that can get him off of Earth, which is why it was a big deal in that moment. It's the whole reason he had to go and ask Admiral Clancy to reinstate him.
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Jan 31 '20
I honestly don't know enough about Star Trek lore to confirm this but I suspect the actual amount of off-world humans is proportionally small. They always talk about the destruction of a homeworld like Romulus to being nearly equivalent to the destruction of a race. If it was like 50/50 living on Earth or off world it wouldn't be an extinction type event. I think the number of humans off world is actually pretty small.
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u/ladyevenstar-22 Jan 31 '20
I lol at that, wouldn't she be able to pinpoint location? Is this cube location secret?
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u/ZeroBANG Jan 31 '20
just check her Twitter, she probably posted selfies with her hot new secret romulan boyfriend...
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u/4thofeleven Jan 31 '20
Yeah, that felt kinda goofy. Should at least have been "Nowhere in Federation space", since the Romulan cube seems to be in their own territory and probably uses its own communication network for security...
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u/bobbagum Feb 01 '20
same with when Picard asks for a 'warp capable' ship... ummm even runabouts have warp nacelles, without warp, you won't be going very far
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u/bhldev Jan 31 '20
No it's a big deal
Most of Star Trek only has a few dozen ships goes up a lot in DS9 or other wars (ugh) but originally there were only six Galaxy Class ships.
It isn't Star Wars you don't have individuals owning ships unless they're wealthy (that Fargo collector guy) or part of the (very small) military. I would expect 99% of people never to go into space. Also high warp travel damages subspace according to some TNG episode so there isn't a vibrant trade economy in fact it's probably severely restricted.
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Jan 31 '20
This is Star Trek. Not being on Earth is not as big a deal as they're making it out to be. The Federation is quite large.
"We've traced the call. It's coming from inside the [green]house."
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Jan 30 '20
Oh my god that shot of Picard in the clock was beautiful.
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u/CraftyBigDan Jan 31 '20
“Time is the fire in which we burn”...Awesome!
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Jan 31 '20
I'm not familiar with that quote, I didn't even make that connection. So good.
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u/Zinkadoo Jan 31 '20
Yeah I was trying to figure out if it was a genuine shot or post sfx
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Jan 30 '20
A few thoughts:
I am amused that the Romulans have both a secret police and a secret secret police.
I like the fact that the admiral slapped Picard down. There is a certain hubris to walking into HQ, demanding a ship and crew, and deigning to accept demotion to captain.
I think Data would shit a brick if he knew about those synths on Mars. A whole bunch of disposable people ...
Admiral Obstinate shed more light on Picard's departure. Picard proclaimed that Starfleet should not choose which species live and die. Yet I cannot say Starfleet would be unreasonable for wanting resources back home if Federation species truly need help.
The commodore has point ears, but did not act very Vulcan.
We have confirmation that Worf, LaForge, and Riker are all alove and doing stuff.
If Federation planets were really in trouble, it would not have been unreasonable to demand Starfleet devote resources to domestic needs over the Romulus recovery.
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u/A2N2T Jan 30 '20
Yet I cannot say Starfleet would be unreasonable for wanting resources back home if Federation species truly need help.
...
If Federation planets were really in trouble, it would not have been unreasonable to demand Starfleet devote resources to domestic needs over the Romulus recovery.
From what i picked up in the dialogue, it wasn't due to the federation being in trouble or needing resources, it was their act of assisting the oldest enemy. 14 federation planets were threatening to secede from the union if the federation continued to aid the romulans...which was the main reason the federation decided to pull back; to maintain the union with the 14 planets that threatened to leave.
I may be wrong, but at a risk of showing sheer fucking hubris, i don't think i am ;-)
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u/errorsniper Jan 31 '20 edited Jan 31 '20
A whole bunch of disposable people
This is why VOY needed an 8th season or at a minimum a feature length film about the doctor and his struggle for rights. By the end of voy he is a fully independent self aware life form. But in no way would he be treated as such by anyone outside of VOY's crew. It is one of the biggest tragedies of star trek is that his right to "rights" was not fleshed out.
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u/ckwongau Jan 30 '20 edited Jan 31 '20
I am amused that the Romulans have both a secret police and a secret secret police.
Not at all , like the Star Fleet also has 2 branch of Intelligence Spy organization,
the "Starfleet Intelligence " , the official Star Fleet Intelligence agency which handle all kind of the intelligence operation
And then there are the super secretive "Section 31 " , the public and most member of high ranking Star fleet command doesn't even aware of that organization's existence
,Section 31 handle all the unspeakable act of intelligence operation like they invented the virus which infected and almost kill off the entire Founder changeling species of the Dominion .
some even believe the Section 31 's virus had help ended the Dominion War Earlier
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u/Mors_ad_mods Jan 30 '20
I am amused that the Romulans have both a secret police and a secret secret police.
Except you can remove the first 'secret', because that applied to everything Romulan anyway, so it's kind of redundant.
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u/Zinkadoo Jan 31 '20
Although they probably have a regular police, which means a secret police, a secret secret police, and a secret secret secret police
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u/DasSnaus Jan 30 '20
If Federation planets were really in trouble, it would not have been unreasonable to demand Starfleet devote resources to domestic needs over the Romulus recovery.
She said 14 species threatened to leave the Federation, certainly a sizable contingent. The Dominic War arc/ TNG Insurrection shows Starfleet adding protectorates ASAP to strengthen its position. It's logical that this practice continued, diluting the importance of some to the overall coalition and the dedication to morals and exploration.
It's likely it was these species who threatened to leave, along with a major member with a long-time beef against the Romulans. The Vulcans would see the saving of their brothers as both logical and moral, so I think a rebel coalition would be led by either Andoria or Tellar.
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u/Grease2310 Jan 31 '20
so I think a rebel coalition would be led by either Andoria or Tellar.
Klingons. Why else would Picard not phone up the Klingon High Council for a ship? He was practically revered and treated as one of their own by them during TNG even being instrumental in Gowron being made Chancellor. The Klingon's likely lead the anti-Romulan coalition.
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u/creepyeyes Jan 31 '20
The commodore has point ears, but did not act very Vulcan.
In the "Ready Room" episode with Wil Wheaton, they did show a shot of her while discussing Romulan eyebrows...
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u/MisterEaves Jan 30 '20
So it seems like the Zhat Vash are behind the synth attack on Utopia Planitia. They could attack the Federation and kill all synths working there in one fell swoop. The Federation gets caught up in the outrage and takes an anti-synth stance. Meanwhile the Zhat Vash infiltrate the highest levels under cover.
Man, this show is cool.
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u/agent_uno Jan 30 '20
I didn’t like that they didn’t give a reason why the Zhat Vash hate AI so much, but I suspect that it has to do with Romulan Space being closer to the Borg than any other faction. Maybe they ran into the Borg centuries before anyone else did? Maybe they developed the AI that became the Borg so they want to stop anyone else from developing AI?
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Jan 30 '20
I suspect it's going to be some sort of Dune-like thing during the mythical period between the Vulcan/Romulan split and the modern Empire.
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u/SleepWouldBeNice Jan 30 '20
Maybe they ran into the Borg centuries before anyone else did?
Maybe, but in the TNG episode where the Romulans were reintroduced, where colonies were being scooped out of planets, foreshadowing the Borg, the Romulan captain didn't seem to know anything about who was behind it.
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Jan 30 '20 edited Jan 30 '20
why the Zhat Vash hate AI so much
To answer the question posed in the episode, yes, I've wondered why the Romulans had no androids. They don't seem to have photonics (holographic "people"), either.
Maybe it has something to do with the Treaty of Algeron. The Federation agreed not to develop cloaking technology. So what were the Romulan concessions? Did they agree not to develop artificial life? Based on a long-standing cultural taboo against AI, maybe they were more than happy to make the concession? ("No AI for no cloaking? Okey doke!")
Edited to add: They may despise AI, but they're more than happy to salvage Borg technology, live and work on a Borg cube, and be around Borg (dead Borg, but nevertheless). They may see a difference between AI and cyborg. They may find themselves setting aside their pride and distaste on the brink of collapse of their civilization.
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u/bardbrain Jan 30 '20 edited Jan 30 '20
I think we might need to look past the idea that the attacks were evil or necessarily a conspiracy.
14 species threatened to leave if the Federation aided the Romulans.
I think the synths sabotaged Utopia Planitia to preserve the Federation.
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Jan 30 '20
14 species threatened to leave the Federation aided the Romulans.
It was an "A-ha" moment for me that connected the "current" events in Picard with Michael Burnham's glimpse of the Federation in the far future seen in the promos for the next season of Disco.
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u/Tuskin38 Jan 30 '20 edited Feb 03 '20
Sorry if this was posted already, but interesting note. Those shuttles on Mars, while they’re a new design for the shows, they’re actually almost 10 years old. John Eaves designed them back in 2011 IIRC
https://i.imgur.com/uPpwVme.png
I flipped the Picard shots to match the direction of the 2d art, and added the Argo for comparison.
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u/Tomb55 Jan 30 '20
How cool is that!
I liked the modular ships (presumably freighters) above Mars too.
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u/desispeed Jan 30 '20
Romulans hate androids? But what about that Romulan Admiral in TNG telling Data "a host of Romulan cyberntists would love to have a look at him"?
Episode "The Defector"
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u/Jizznut Jan 30 '20
Maybe he got cut off and what he was trying to say that "a host of Romulan cybernetisists would love to have a look at him being exploded to fuck until not a trace of him is left"
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u/cpt_j_flint Jan 31 '20
Well that's romulans for you. They don't reveal what they think, what plots they are currently making up and least of all, what resentments they currently harbour when they instead can mislead you into a false sense of security.
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u/4thofeleven Jan 31 '20
"They'd love to have a look at you, because all of our attempts at creating androids keep ending in mysterious accidents that claim the lives of the designer and destroy all their records..."
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u/groundrush Jan 30 '20
"Spittlebugs on the Pinots" The writing on this show is great!
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u/Clariana Jan 31 '20
Michael Chambon is a Pulitzer Prize winning novelist... Not saying he wrote the script but he may take an interest in them...
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u/UCMCoyote Jan 31 '20
I'm not sure if anyone else caught it but the android that goes about on a murderspree had the name F-8. As in Fate. It could be a nod to something more, since B4's name was a clever pun.
I try to not discount anything, just stood out to me.
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u/EntropicProf Jan 31 '20
Are folks in agreement that Lt. Rizzo is Narek's "dead" brother, altered in both species and gender? That's what I took away, but I wanted to make sure I didn't miss something...
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u/chris_rock88 Jan 31 '20
Didn't catch that, good point. Still, maybe his brother is dead and he still has another sibling... or eight. Or it was a lie.
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u/Tomb55 Jan 30 '20
Solid gold again.
Cursing is new. The thing I’m really impressed with is the level of detail in the writing. Really makes it worth a second or third watch. Properly packing it in.
Romulan Irish lady is extremely amusing.
Also the trailer for Episode 3! Fucking hellfire I thought it was the Borg Queen for a second. I also thought for a second it could have been Juliana but she couldn’t have been assimilated surely?
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u/radiakmjs Jan 30 '20
Sheer Fucking Hubris caught me a little off guard too
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u/creepyeyes Jan 31 '20
I think it was a good writing choice though because it made me instantly hate that character. How dare you say that to MY Picard?!
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u/LordGalen Jan 30 '20
That and when one of the workers in the flashback said "shit." I find it pretty jarring, actually. In ST:IV, Kirk had to explain to Spock what swearing even is. That, to me, suggested that commonplace swearing is, at the very least, not nearly as common as it is today. But in this show and Disco, we get quite a bit of heavy swearing. Normally I find swearing only adds spice to the dialogue of a show, but in a ST series it just feels out of place somehow.
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u/Mors_ad_mods Jan 30 '20
Romulan Irish lady is extremely amusing.
I'd love to hear a mention of her having learned English in Ireland because she refused to be reliant on a universal translator.
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u/Torley_ Jan 30 '20
Keeping her natural accent must’ve been a deliberate flavor choice, because Orla Brady spoke with an American accent in Fringe.
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u/4thofeleven Jan 31 '20
It makes sense if she's ex-Tal Shiar, that she'd be trained to learn the local language and accent so she wouldn't stick out when undercover.
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u/losbullitt Jan 31 '20
I could listen to the Irish lady Romulan talk all day.
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u/plipyplop Jan 31 '20 edited Jan 31 '20
They wrote an amazingly endearing character. To think that a Romulan was also Irish was a great way to make them no longer the enemy. I always remembered the Romulans to be absolutely unrelatable, up until now that is.
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Jan 31 '20
The thing I’m really impressed with is the level of detail in the writing. Really makes it worth a second or third watch. Properly packing it in.
Doing a simple thing really well that, while simple, needs to be thoughtfully done, is a rare treat on TV sometimes. Parallel cuts are all over the place these days, but having the same two people interspersed together and not having them cover ground out of order (nor contrast with, and lose the thread of, each separation conversation in the mind of the viewer) is a whole other bit.
I appreciate that from an elegance/cleverness standpoint, in terms of mature storytelling in the same way I appreciate the technical merits of a single take fight scene.
It wasn't like it was done for the sake of it to be flashy, either, just subtle and appealing and gave some texture to the explanations rather than being pure drawn-out exposition.
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Jan 30 '20
I love this show.
Ep1 was a punch to the gut, and ep2 did a great job at world building and setting up the story. I am all in.
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Jan 31 '20
Yeah, I liked the premiere because of how it did what it had to do. This one was great being able to breathe and tell a story, moving around the pieces that the first episode spent setting up.
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u/TDBear18 Jan 31 '20
So I just finished this episode....and I feel like they’ve crammed a lot into this episode but it doesn’t feel like the story progressed. Does that make sense?
I know early reviewers were given the first three episodes and the focus of several folks review seemed to be that the pace was ... slow.
I love the serial vs. episodic nature, but does anyone else feel like they are spinning their wheels a bit?
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u/EntropicProf Jan 31 '20
This is an eight-hour movie. The hobbits haven't even reached Rivendell yet.
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u/ZeroBANG Jan 31 '20
Yeah but you don't watch Lord of the Rings in 45 minute chunks per week, that would take forever.
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Jan 31 '20 edited Jan 31 '20
I agree. I hate to compare it to STD, but the pace and flow of information was better. Several times I had to rewind dialog after figuring out “oh this is important “.
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u/TDBear18 Jan 31 '20
So I’m watching E2 of The Ready a Room and I think the showrunner just clarified my question for me; if they are treating each season as an episode that makes me feel better and I’ll be thrilled to bing the entire season once it’s over.
It was a damn captivating episode though.
I like how they’re focusing on drama and the spoken word more than action because that truly is the essence of who Picard was/is.
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u/CeruleanRuin Feb 01 '20
This episode was all worldbuilding and setup. We now have a good idea who the series antagonists will be, both in abstract and in person, and what Picard is up against. We still don't know what they're after or why, and those two questions in order will likely take up most of the rest of the season. And those two things will require events, if which this episode was indeed lacking.
Once Picard finds a ship I expect the pace of actual events to pick up considerably.
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u/jomag12 Jan 30 '20
Also im probably dumb but the doctor guy..who is he? Was he on tng or just a semi-famous actor that looks familiar?
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Jan 30 '20
He wasn't on TNG but they're clearly implying that he was Picard's head of medical on USS Stargazer.
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u/thoughtsandairs Jan 30 '20
I thought it might have been cool to bring back Diana Muldaur/Pulaski instead
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u/Dylinspace39 Jan 30 '20
I was thinking that too I know a lot of people were probably wishing it was Beverly, but there's no chance in hell that Beverly would even let Jean-Luc out of her sight for a second if she thought he was going to run off on some Adventure after detecting signs of embolic syndrome, it's been awhile since I've seen all good things but isn't an implied that his unwillingness to relax once he got sick is the reason they got divorced
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u/jedivulcan Jan 30 '20
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u/Torley_ Jan 30 '20
So memeable.
I keep checking if certain characters have returned from TNG or if they’re new but have shared history with Picard.
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u/creepyeyes Jan 31 '20
This is definitely a character who could have been Nechayev, just from her role in the story.
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u/jomag12 Jan 30 '20
Dang. I get the frustration with having to wait till next week, but dang. I think we got more questions than answers and has captivated us enough to get mad that we cannot watch the next episode....sounds like a good episode to me ;)
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Jan 31 '20
I loved it when Picard went to Starfleet and the reception guy didn’t know who he was when Picard clearly thought he should because he didn’t announce himself. You could see him thinking damn I’m getting old and things have moved on.
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u/bardbrain Jan 30 '20
Does anyone else suspect that the secret of the Zhat Vash could be that Romulans themselves (and possibly Vulcans) are ancient synthetic life forms?
I had a few alarm bells go off as to that prospect.
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u/Tomb55 Jan 30 '20
That sort of thing kind of gets debunked by episodes like The Chase. But it’s a possibility they experimented with the technology early on and it went wrong. Like Earth and the Augments.
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u/bardbrain Jan 30 '20
Unless we’re getting a payoff of The Chase and ALL HUMANOIDS including humans are technically synthetic.
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u/ChekalinSC Jan 31 '20
It seems like either the Romulans encountered sentient AI thousands of years ago and had a really crappy experience, or they encountered the Borg and somehow managed to survive.
I love the whole, our isolationist xenophobic version of the Federation exists because Romulans have infiltrated the highest levels of Starfleet.
As far as a secret that would break the mind of anyone who knew it. That interests me. Maybe all organic life in the Alpha quadrant evolved from a synthetic life form?
I’m loving the show. I’m just hoping they don’t go too BG on us.
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u/Lumine_d Jan 31 '20
At least some of the humanoid races that exist are the result of an ancient humanoid race seeding planets with DNA that was programmed to evolve into a humanoid form.
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Jan 30 '20
Admiral Picard commanded the Veritas and his #1 was "Raffi" who is seseen at the end of the episode. I would like to see not only more flashbacks of this story but maybe a book or two - I'm guessing this didn't last too long since the attack on Mars is when Picard left Starfleet.
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u/groundrush Jan 30 '20
Whoah! An F-bomb! And that scene removing the Borg tech was pretty gory! This is probably as close as we're going to get to Tarantino's vision.
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Jan 30 '20
If you think about it, there is no AI in most species outside the Delta quadrant. I can think of cybernetic species like the Bynars, but not much. It’s absent everywhere from The Dominion to the Klingons; even minor species.
How big is this secret society?
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u/4thofeleven Jan 31 '20
The Cardassians built an automated missile with an AI in "Dreadnought". I think that's the only time we've seen a major power with a functional AI.
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Jan 31 '20
Tired of the trope that any intelligence agency in the good guy faction must secretly be bad. Like the federation wouldn’t have anyone that’s not secretly romulan? Who would be watching for exactly that level of penetration? Especially with their history.
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u/wmueller88 Jan 31 '20
Before the Tal Shiar, there was the Zhat Vash,..sole purpose to keep a secret so profound and terrible it could break a person’s mind. MY THEORY is that this secret that would break someone’s mind is when you tell someone they are actually a synth. All Romulans are flesh and blood synths, controlled by an artificial hub/singularity that is now trying to maintain its monopoly on perfect synth technology and will try to seek out and destroy Bruce Maddox. Picard must save Maddox and uncover the truth.
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u/ZeroBANG Jan 31 '20
If any of that was true then a single Romulan being assimilated by the Borg would have the Collective make a u-turn on their way to earth to assimilate Romulus instead.
Pretty sure the Borg assimilated romulan colonies in "The Neutral Zone" at the end of TNG Season 1 already (before they even had a clear idea what the Borg were).Also Romulus kinda exploded, your "artificial hub/singularity" would most likely have been on that planet.
But it would explain the bad haircuts ...if they all had been printed out by the same 3D printer.
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u/CassRMorris Jan 30 '20
This is a ridiculously tiny detail, but did the little robot moving around inside the Artifact at about 14:50 remind anyone else of the Exocomps from "The Quality of Life"?
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u/Lumine_d Jan 31 '20
Just looked like a Romulan-style drone to me. The Exocomps had feet and didn't have thrusters or wings.
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u/chris_rock88 Jan 31 '20
Alright, now I'm worried.
I liked quite a bit of episode one, but that whole setup about xenophobia and rebellious androids made me anxious.
Then I saw the banner in the vault and felt a bit of hope. "Oh, good. Some beyond surface level fanservice!", I thought. "I guess the writers have seen TNG."
But now? Geez... None of it makes any sense. The writing is bad, exposition everywhere and most importantly; this doesn't feel anything like the world Star Trek set up until 2009.
And my favourite show is DS9; you know, the one with the war and Star Treks ideals being tested over and over for four seasons straight.
What got me today was the scene in Dahj's apartment: Ever since Discovery, technobabble has become the McGuffin to everything. People swear all the time in a fashion that would be rude and inappropriate even nowadays. None of the people feel like the slightly naive, goody two-shoes in the series.
Where is the Utopian future? Do you really mean to tell me the Federation degraded into a bunch of angry xenophobes between Nemesis and the supernova? We have Fox News in Space now? Really? The same Federation that went through the Dominion War intact? The same species that hadn't seen a murder on its capital world for over a century? The one where the black woman didn't even know to be offender by racism? That one?
Jesus.. I'm all for modernizing the ol' gal Star Trek. But please; watch the shows and take some notes!
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u/wumikomiko Feb 02 '20
Sorry but the Romulan guy that all the girls in the show are going crazy for looks like a chipmunk.
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Jan 30 '20
Just watched 1st episdoe and have a question. Romulans are Spock's race? Weren't they called something else?
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u/Tomb55 Jan 30 '20
Vulcans.
Spock is Human/Vulcan.
Romulans have a genetic connection to Vulcans but a significantly different culture.
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u/milo_master Jan 31 '20
My major theory, the Romulans created the Borg. that is the big secret, the reason they don't use AI and such.... they created the monster... when they couldn't control it... they sent it into deep space... erased everything about it etc.
the reason their sun died was the Borg getting revenge.
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u/GovHealthcare Jan 31 '20
The episode feels like Picard fell asleep after watching Alex Jones and the Ancient Aliens dude all day and is now having a raging conspiracy theory nightmare.
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u/taliefer Jan 31 '20
I actually didnt really like this episode that much. Romulans all of a sudden having a secret society with a deep seeded hatred of AI, yet this never came up with, you know, Data? just feels way to retconny.
my biggest issue is how they handwaved away asking for help from the people who would give it no questions asked. Picard not wanting to endanger them feels false. These were Data's friend every bit as much as Picard. especially Jordi. i mean cmon, maybe Riker is a family man or something now and doesnt wanna go trapsing about space and leave his family behind, id buy that considering his own family history. and maybe worf is doin some klingon shit that would keep him from helping.
but there is no scenario in which i believe jordi wouldnt drop everything if Picard told him Data had a daughter. and its downright unbelievable Picard would withhold this information from them. ESPECIALLY Jordi.
I get the show is Picard and not TNG season 9, and hell maybe the actors dont wanna reprise the role or any other numerous reasons, but if you are gonna make the plot revolve around Data's daughter, ima need a better reason than they gave for keeping those characters sidelined.
really enjoyed the first episode, but this one felt like a step down. hopefully next week pulls me back in, i want to like the show
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u/cpt_j_flint Jan 31 '20
but isn't that exactly what picard said? That they would join him without hesitation and that is precicely why he doesn't ask them? Because, from his perspective, he'd be using their loyalty for his own little mission, he'd put them in grave danger by involving them, but isn't ready to do that again. He does not want to be confronted with a situation similar to Data's death, who died under his command because he was so loyal to him and the enterprise's crew. This loss clearly is still haunting him (in his dreams) and he's far from done with working through the psychological impact it had on him.
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u/Embarassed_Tackle Jan 31 '20
We'll see Riker later, of course. But it's probably a nod to the fact that we don't want to see Riker's fat ass rolling around the galaxy like that corny Enterprise holodeck finale. And another nod to the subtle fact that CBS needs young actors to attract young watchers so we can't just have an entire crew of old people. They can be guest stars and I"d like to see Worf too, but that's about it.
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Jan 31 '20
I liked the episode but I'm a bit worried this is going to be a film stretched out over ten episodes. I also really hated the swearing for reasons I can't really articulate.
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Jan 31 '20
Swearing where it didn't fit naturally just grates. It sounded forced in that scene.
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u/thoughtsandairs Jan 30 '20
that admiral clancy scene...if she was chewing the scenery any more she would have started barking at picard
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u/ckwongau Jan 30 '20 edited Jan 30 '20
Are there any idealistic Admiral left in the Star Fleet ?
I can understand Picard's interview would hurt some of his old fiend's feeling , but Picard's were not wrong about helping the Romulan from a moral and philosophical point of view .
If someone like Admiral Janeway is still in active duty , she probably would even be agreeing with Picard .
I think the point is that Picard doesn't have many friends left in Star Fleet,even the guy at the reception desk doesn't recognized him , it seems idealistic people like Picard or Janeway are no longer in charge of Star Fleet.
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u/agent_uno Jan 30 '20
Are there any idealistic Admiral left in the Star Fleet ?
My head canon is that starfleet brass is now made up of former captains from the dominion war that are probably suffering from a false idea that the federation needs to be more isolationist. And my guess is that extends beyond just the humans. And the Vulcans have probably been spending 20 years now saying “I told ya so!”
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u/BioMagus Jan 30 '20
This episode was LIT. This series is going to be fuckin awesome
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u/Pellaeonthewingedleo Jan 31 '20
Are they fucking kidding us? Is Measusre of a man worth nothing to these people?
The Androids are treated as the slaverace Picard and Guinen warned us off over 20 years ago.
This is insulting
In general this episode was weird, apparently Starfleet security and Section 31 have become incompetend to find Ruomulan infiltrators
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u/risk_is_our_business Jan 30 '20
What’s the earliest it airs globally?
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u/Flelk Jan 30 '20
The show goes live at 12:01 AM Pacific, which is 3:01 AM Eastern
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u/SolenyathePickleMan1 Jan 30 '20
Did anyone notice the triangular card game? Does anyone know what it is and can I buy a copy?
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u/linkerjpatrick Jan 30 '20 edited Jan 30 '20
I found it funny that Picard gave the Uncle Owen treatment to his Romulan helper 😂
Also looks like he might be looking for a pilot to take him to Bruce Maddox and end up at the Death Cube. Just sayin....
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Jan 30 '20
What is the story with the commodore? If she is a Romulan posing as a Vulcan, she is not doing a good job.
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u/defchris Jan 30 '20
She's in Starfleet intelligence and in control of Earth security. She is in the perfect spot.
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u/Torley_ Jan 31 '20
I think there’s some double-agenting going on, where it’s stated that Narek and sister are using the Commodore as a tool for greater means. Don’t have the exact dialog handy.
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Jan 31 '20
Picard has Alzheimer?
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u/GreyRobb Jan 31 '20
In the TNG series finale "All Good Things," Picard was diagnosed with Irumodic Syndrome
Basically, the potential for kinda-sorta Space Alzheimers.
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u/Sam-HobbitOfTheShire Jan 31 '20
Possibly a form of dementia. Irumodic Syndrome. But I don’t think they confirmed that he has it in this timeline, the doctor guy merely implied it.
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u/Zed99me Jan 31 '20
I am so intrigued by F8 and what occurred on Mars! It is easy to think they were sent a new program ... but to shoot oneself ? Is that to avoid the satellite cannons? To avoid a purposeless life after killing everyone ? Certainly not remorse... seems a thoughtful action for a thoughtless synth.
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u/Deltaboiz Jan 31 '20
So one of the key things is characters other than from Picards perspective do confirm Dahj is dead.
I know a few people were skeptical she didn't survive (Myself included), but we now seem to have third party verification from the people who did it.
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Feb 01 '20
I like the first episode. This one felt very, very un-Star Trek. Can see where it’s going and it’s a shame.
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Feb 01 '20
I was hoping that F8 would say “oh a stick!!!” right before he shot himself.
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Feb 02 '20
This is shaping up to be one of the all time great sci-fi shows. Excited!
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u/Dark_Tzitzimine Feb 02 '20
They've gotten a lot better at filling up large amounts of space with technobabble without making it boring
Nice to see that granny panties will make yet another comeback in the far future
Hah you could see "so can I" coming a lightyear away
Love the transporter gates, not sure what I think about the uniforms
Damned future millenials not recognizing The Picard
Almost didn't notice her Trill spots
Oops it turns out Picard was on the nose about it not being Starfleet any more
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u/SOSOBOSO Jan 31 '20
Why do Romulans and their human conspirators have 50's style transatlantic accents?
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u/honeybadger1984 Feb 01 '20
I'm not a fan of evil Admiral plot yet again. Seems like the Federation has weak security as there's always an evil something or other meant to move a conspiracy along. But I guess it's a long standing tradition that Federation internal security sucks.
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u/rudymalmquist Jan 30 '20
did they mention the current star date in either of the first 2 episodes?
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u/JackSpadesSI Jan 30 '20
Is there no new Ready Room episode to accompany the new Picard episode today? I don't see it up on CBS.
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u/DenormalHuman Jan 31 '20
i came here hoping for a solute breakdown of all that is. instead there is a mix of ideas and speculation. Nice!
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u/MrTickles22 Feb 02 '20
So like, why can't Picard just rent or charter a spaceship? He's a decorated, retired starship captain. He would have the money. It's very well established that there's been civilian starships for centuries in his time.
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Feb 02 '20
Wow! I loved it.
Something worth mentioning, is there has been a theme since Picard became Locutus of Borg, of there being indicators that Picard is suffering early onset of dementia or dementia like symptoms. Picard went in for surgery for supposedly the last of the borg implants, but that was never certain they got out everything.
Data is sharing with Picard some trace, fragmentary memories that are being picked up as dreams, due to subspace signals.
I am tempted on not watching more and waiting until the full season comes out and binge watching at least a few episodes back-to-back.
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u/IMarvinTPA Feb 03 '20
Is anybody else horrified at the probability of a telefrag in one of those highly used teleporter pads in the street? They were just fractions of a second away from overlapping space issues. I would expect a real system like that to have dedicated outgoing and incoming pads so the sensors could hold off teleportation until it was clear.
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Feb 03 '20
Episode 2 made me a bit nervous. I kept noticing that Midnight's Edge 25% difference thing. The dialog was clunky/super expositiony, they threw cursing in to be edgy, and not much happened really. They need to veer back towards TNG and away from Discovery.
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u/Lumine_d Jan 30 '20
"This facility has gone 5843 days without an assimilation" So going by an Earth based calendar, the Cube was found approximately 16 years ago, maybe more if they needed to keep resetting the count because, you know, Borg, they like to stick tubes into people necks.