The Lying Detective: Post-Episode Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

[u/GoFlight]

[u/TheCrimsonCritic]

Anyone else a little embarrassed that they didn't realise the therapist, the bus lady and the 'daughter' were all the one actress?

[u/RangaSpartan → u/TheCrimsonCritic]

Extremely! She was fantastic!

[u/hoppityhop → u/TheCrimsonCritic]

Yes!! I could have sworn the lady visiting Sherlock was the lady in the boardroom meeting... Until she walked into the morgue and I realised it was a different person. Mind blown!

[u/Numendil]

I was half expecting Sherringford to keep removing makeup, a wig, etc. and reveal she was in fact Moriarty.

[u/ImTheRealBruceWayne → u/Numendil]

Same haha

[u/pounro]

WHY DID SHERLOCK'S PARENTS HAVE CHILDREN?

[u/redbullcat → u/pounro]

What kind of genes do they have?!

[u/gabstars]

Damn, when sherlock hugged crying watson... :( what a brilliant episode.

[u/silverius]

Little echo of the first episode. Sherlock deduces that John has a brother, which turns out to be a sister. (Strange that we've never seen her, btw). In this episode John makes basically the same assumption.

[u/rohitsrao]

The ending of His Last Vow.

Sherlock tells Watson: "The east wind takes us all in the end. It is a story my brother told me when we were kids. The east wind is a terrifying force that lays waste to all in its path. It seeks out the unworthy and plucks them from the earth. That was generally me. "

Watson: Nice

Sherlock: "He is a rubbish big brother"

[u/MelodyRaindo]

Okay but can we talk about that actress. She played, very convincingly, three four separate roles. Goddamn that was some good acting.

[u/simonjp → u/MelodyRaindo]

Well, 4 I guess; bus lady, concerned daughter, therapist and Holmes sibling.

[u/PM_ME_CAKE]

It's been a while but Sherlock is back on form. Amazing. Now about that CGI explosion in the trailer for next week...

[u/aliceinwonderfulland]

John cheated on Mary with Sherlocks sister? Hahahahha

[u/JangoAllTheWay → u/aliceinwonderfulland]

It was just texting 😉

[u/delaynomoar → u/aliceinwonderfulland]

"... abnormally attracted to dangerous situations and people"

John Watson can't get a break.

[u/fralamp88]

"The East Wind is coming, Sherlock. It's coming to get you"

[u/[deleted] → u/fralamp88]

"Siiiilence, Doctor, Silence will fall!"

Classic Moffat

[u/stealth57 → u/fralamp88]

Anyone else think of Doctor Strange while Sherlock was totally tripping and walking up the wall?

[u/NotThatL]

I think Jimmy Saville was one of Sherlock's most compelling villains

[u/rohitsrao]

Shit. I just realised. "Miss Me?" makes soooooooo much more sense now!!!

[u/[deleted]]

"What is it with the number three? People always give up after number three."

Like the 3 episodes a series?

[u/voidvector8 → u/[deleted]]

Or a 3 year wait between series.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Or the 3 Holmes siblings.

[u/KieranBren → u/[deleted]]

if a surprise 4th episode was announced i'd lose my shit

[u/toblu]

Now that was a lot better, wasn't it?

[u/Viper711]

Sherrinford might be the fourth Holmes. "Why do people always give up at three?"

[u/[deleted]]

Can we just talk about how Smith is so based on Jimmy Savile or is this just me

[u/Russell_Ruffino → u/[deleted]]

Keys to a hospital, charity work, connections to royals and politicians.

Pretty much identical.

[u/MelodyRaindo]

That nod to Sherlock's birthday was cute.

[u/laingc]

The best thing for me is Mrs Hudson's car + driving and Mycroft getting Lady Smallwood's number

[u/Steffi128 → u/laingc]

Mrs. Hudson turned full on BADASS in this episode. Cuffing Sherlock, having him thrown into the boot of her car, racing down to John's at full speed, ...

Mycroft's shagging the Lady already, though.

[u/banishingofadam]

Can we take a moment to consider that the girl John started to fall for was actually a female Sherlock?

[u/lolfail9001 → u/banishingofadam]

John just can't escape it, can he?

[u/Phiryte → u/banishingofadam]

She even says it, as the therapist, at the beginning of the episode: "I am reminding you of your friend, I think."

[u/voidvector8]

"He's making a funny face. I think I'll put a hole in it."

No need, cos my mind is blown.

[u/Kritigri]

That rug looked like a bloodstain at the beginning, I almost thought it was foreshadowing. Then I thought to myself how absurd it was for me to find danger in a therapist's place.

I HATE MYSELF.

[u/HahaNotAgain]

Snarky ghost Mary > super dangerous secret agent Mary

[u/spudatoe4]

Could it be twins? After years of conditioning to make us think it's never twins, they pull the twin card?

[u/GingerHairedBreadMan]

The best thing about this episode was Sherlock's calculations all being made before the actual event and all of them unfolding as the episode went on. He was at his best as preparation for turning into his worst self

[u/AbraKedavra]

That was the most gripping episode of anything I've seen in a while.

[u/silentnin7a]

Anyone else think for a second that he sneaked the recording device up his bum and not in the cane?

[u/XthTran → u/silentnin7a]

that was honestly my first and only thought.

[u/obattisha]

Can't wait to hear Mycroft say "Sister mine"

[u/quantum_of_flawless]

somebody downvoted me a few days ago for suggesting that sherrinford could be a girl's name as in a Holmes sister and I just wanted to say that I was right and I'm in a petty mood so just indulge me

[u/cahoopuk → u/quantum_of_flawless]

Who says they don't have a brother too...sherrinford and "everyone stops after three"

[u/ILOVEGLADOS]

As I said last week, E1 took a bullet for the greater good of the rest of the series and by god it showed in this one. Outstanding.

Mary was actually put to good use! A villain that was absolutely terrifying! Mrs Hudson even got several great moments to shine.

THIS is what The Empty Hearse SHOULD have been, and yes ok, there was a little bit of the usual Moffat wankiness at the end (the conversation between Watson and Sherlock went on for a tiny bit too long) but I'm nitpicking here.

I can't think of too many actors who play villains like Toby Jones, he's just spot on everytime. I said it in the live thread but kudos to the Beeb for taking a Saville-esque character and plonking it in the middle of one of it's most successful and viewed shows. That took balls and I have to admire them for that.

Probably the best episode since Reichenbach (and I say that as someone who enjoyed the bulk of S3) absolutely gripping, with dead on humour and a believable-arch for many of the characters (as believable as a Sherlock Holmes story goes anyway)

Kinda wish they hadn't shown Watson in the preview for next week but whatever, it's not as if he's going to die or anything. I swear I was ready for the psychiatrist to rip her own face off at the end and Moriarty to be behind a mask, and I still would have absolutely bought it!

10/10, this is one is going to the top.

[u/Wertyujh1]

WHAT?!?

[u/draw_it_now → u/Wertyujh1]

I would like to reiterate this point

[u/HolyMackereltheThird]

I find it interesting that, after The Six Thatchers being compared to a bond film, this episode began with an Aston Martin and ended with a gunshot and fade to red? Are Moffat and Garris pushing references, or did they predict the backlash of episode 1?

[u/saffron40]

Props to the costume department. Sian Brooke was unrecognizable in three different disguises

[u/lordsmish → u/saffron40]

And props to her because dam that voice has range

[u/spidey1233]

MAINTAIN EYE CONTACT

MAINTAIN EYE CONTACT

[u/MelodyRaindo → u/spidey1233]

I thought Culverton was leaning down for a kiss at one point

[u/Hyfrith]

That was the Sherlock we all know and love. Intriguing, dynamic, a creepy as hell villain, a story drowning in excellent plot twists. Loads of little moments and lines to be excited about. Just great Sherlock once again.

[u/bacon_cake]

So... how is John supposed to survive a gunshot to the face?

[u/NotThatL → u/bacon_cake]

It was a fake doppelganger that Molly Hooper found again

[u/[deleted]]

Secret sister was amazingly revealed. I knew that woman on the bus was a Chekov's Gun.

[u/CombustibleCompost]

Am I the only one to see this but did they show a close up of Smith's crotch when he was killing Sherlock, like he was hard? Maybe I'm just seeing things but maybe it was to show he got off to it in a way. Am I just imagining this?

FOUND IT! NSFW http://i.imgur.com/wBGGKLw.png

[u/The7thStreet]

Anyone else really like dead Mary?

[u/antonylockhart]

This was interesting from 3 years ago

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1153671/chapters/2339449

[u/firecloud7]

The one thing I don't quite get... if Sherlock spent a whole evening with Eurus, couldn't he detect in the slightest any resemblance between her and his 'sister'? I mean, he was high, but they didn't look that different...

EDIT: 'Eurus'

[u/BeatsByBard → u/firecloud7]

He had a childhood flashback while talking to her but didnt realize cause he was too high

[u/blushingorange → u/firecloud7]

She was in disguise looking pretty similar to Faith, and as you say, Sherlock was off his face. I'm not surprised he didn't notice.

Edit: and there's good reason to believe Sherlock doesn't know he has a sister. Mycroft keeping secrets from him wouldn't be a surprise.

[u/Xanforth]

From "the worst season ever" to "what a ride!!"

You guys are more dramatic than the show

[u/ercoidem]

I like how John's daughter seems completely out of the picture too.

[u/BitByADeadBee]

Hasn't someone in the Holmes family said "our family is a MESS"?

Mycroft Euros Sherlock Sherringford

[u/getinthequattro]

So glad the therapist didn't start speaking in an Irish accent and reveal herself to be Moriarty

[u/XthTran → u/getinthequattro]

I'm glad she stopped at her contacts and didn't take off her face to reveal Moriarty

[u/creampuffle]

Are there four siblings? Earlier in the episode Sherlock says "Everyone stops looking after 3", and I'm not sure, but did the sister mention another name starting with E?

EDIT - Just rewatched, no other name. I still think Eurus and Sherrinford might be different people.

[u/miainglott]

Mycroft's reaction to getting Lady Smallwoods number was by far the most relatable part of the episode for me.

[u/natalie_ihw]

Mycroft's "Everybody dies. It’s the one thing human beings can be relied upon to do. How can it still come as a surprise to people?" line was one of the best uses of his character ever.

[u/ScottFromScotland]

It was obvious Watson wouldn't die but showing him in the teaser for next week is pretty lame.

[u/hrishiv27 → u/ScottFromScotland]

It was obvious that Watson wouldn't die. Making that the cliffhanger would be meaningless. Putting him in the trailer was a much better idea, as instead of the meaningless "will he survive?" Cliffhanger, people will now wonder "how does he survive?".

[u/JohanDeWitt]

Well. Now we're talking. This was extremely and utterly amazing. Where last week we saw how the ingredients used to make this show can end up tasting weird when cooked slightly wrong...

... this week showed us what can be done if everything kicks into place. What an utterly amazing hour of television. What a show.

[u/not_king_joffrey]

Did anyone else think Mrs. Hudson was awesome in this episode?

[u/theLAZYmd]

Is she Euros or is she Sherringford?

[u/moaningpilot]

Both the mortuary and the suffocation scenes were amazing pieces of acting on all parts. Had me genuinely on edge as to what was going to happen next.

[u/gabstars]

This episode was exactly what i wanted. Now im happy.

[u/[deleted]]

I know there is a lot of big stuff to talk about but can we just talk about how amazing mrs hudson was in this episode. I definetly did not see that coming.

[u/helterstash]

Can't help but remember how 'Sherrinford' is a mirror of 'Harry'

[u/[deleted]]

How did Sherlock know about Ghost Mary? (More specifically the hat)

[u/ThYpHo0n]

So John sexted with Sherlock's sis. I think they are even now.

[u/GingerHairedBreadMan]

I have to say, Mary made a big improvement this week.

[u/The-Author]

Definitely the best episode so far. Even considering the state of the previous one. I struggle to see how the next one could top it.

Edit: Also that last five minutes was unexpected and mindblowing. I thought the third brother/ sister thing was going to be expanded upon in the next episode not this one.

[u/[deleted]]

Can we all accept the show's visuals aren't meant to be taken literally?

When that Woman's (Sherrinford's) bag was tossed, Sherlock, while the scene remained in show motion, walked across the room and picked it up -- as usual, what we saw were the images the characters imagined, their "Mind Palaces" at work.

So when in last week's episode Mary visualised a bullet headed for Sherlock, why did we assume the events were happening literally, with the bullet having been fired before she reacts?

[u/stealthykins]

Well, "There's an east wind coming, Watson."

[u/alibix]

God that was an amazing episode.

[u/AwesomeGuy847]

Jesus, Sherlock's parents are terrible at naming children.

[u/Greyclocks]

SINCE WHEN WAS M. NIGHT SHAMALAM WRITING FOR SHERLOCK?

[u/HahaNotAgain]

That scene where John confesses to Mary was great. It made me feel soooo much more emotions than the last week's death scene (which was somewhere around 0 emotions tbh).

[u/[deleted]]

So... Sherlock's secret sibling... is that the one with "the swimming pool, new Mercedes and room for a pony"?

[u/spidey1233]

Can we just talk about Mrs Hudson's Aston Martin cop chase? Damn.

[u/The_Great_Andini]

While I was watching the credits, there were several letters in red instead of white. When I went back and looked, they spelled out "once more unto the breach". I know that's a reference to King Henry but I don't know much about Shakespeare. Is it a puzzle?

[u/[deleted]]

That may have been the best episode of Sherlock yet. Toby Jones was bloody brilliant. I was not expecting that to follow last week's shocker.

[u/Bman3399]

That was the perfect work around to bringing Mary back.

[u/MelodyRaindo]

When Culverton leaned down towards Sherlock I legitimately thought they were about to kiss.

[u/[deleted]]

what the FUCK

[u/VV1N73RMVT3]

The Holmes family really have collectively done a number on John at this point jeez

[u/KarlKastor]

Great episode, way better than the last. Nice forshadowing: "There's an east wind coming."

But how did Sherlock not recognize his sister twice?

[u/theLAZYmd]

Can we do a discussion? Who wants Irene Adler back?

[u/IAmBatman412]

So is Moriarty not gonna be in this season? Urius seems to be the villain

[u/probarg]

I can't have been the only one who thought Sherlock had hidden the fourth recorder up his arse, right?

[u/RabidFlamingo]

I guess Elementary's not the only one who can pull off a "villain was a different gender" twist

(Side note - I'm getting similar vibes from the recent Doctor Who series from the "wear the damn hat" motif, where the Doctor says himself and "the Doctor" are two different people, and he has to live up to the second one)

[u/willed1234]

Hot diggity daffodil. That was exceptional.

[u/Chiara_85]

Quite a fabulous episode, in my opinion.

Toby Jones's Saville-inspired villain was pitch perfect : the way people bowed to his every whim, the subtle manner in which he would threaten and intimidate those around him, his intellectual simplicity, the inexplicable relief of confession, etc. A quasi-embodiment of the banality of evil. Great villain. I am almost sad to see him go !

Aside from Jones, my favourite bits would be :

• a stunning portrayal of grief and recovery : as Watson says, he will never be "ok" with it. One can never be "ok" with a loved one being ripped away. But he is ok with not being ok with it... At peace with the fact that he will never be at peace with what happened. Profoundly moving;

• saving those you love : John, Mary, Sherlock... To them, love is a rescue mission and, by gosh, they might not be wrong ! They all save one another in this episode (John rescues Sherlock; Sherlock rescues John; Mary saves them both) A deeply touching and quite innovative form of love triangle :) Also, the speech Watson gives Holmes about the urgency of trying to connect, of loving, because the opportunity may be snatched away at any time... Simple but quite powerful;

• Sherlock advocating for him and John to accept their (and each other's) humanity : coming from a man who believes in a higher power (namely himself), it was very significant. Holmes is painfully coming to terms with his own limits and encourages John to do the same and not hold himself to impossibly high standards. The forgiveness he offers his friend over the texting with the "woman on the bus" was very touching;

• Mycroft found a goldfish he likes !!! :D

The questions thIS episode raises :

• Euros / therapist / lady on the bus : WTF ? How could Sherlock not recognise his own sister ? Doesn't he know he has a sister ? Sherlock's parents don't seem like the type to dismiss and never mention one of their children. Is she really a Holmes ? And she said that Culverton Smith told her about his crimes and daughter's characteristics... Why ? In the hope he could trap and kill Sherlock ?

• Sherrinford : WTF again ! Is Sherrinford Euros ? A code name ? Or is it something else altogether ? Mycroft said he gets regular updates about "the other one". Assuming said "other one" is indeed Euros and a Holmes sibling, how come he appears unaware of her criminal activities ?

• Irene Adler : in The Abominable Bride, she was openly discussed once and further referred to in a more subtle way through Victorian Moriarty's lines (sleep in Sherlock's bed; "new sexy"). Now, we get a quick character recap in the form of the conversion about her texts. The writers seem hell-bent on reminding us she is alive somewhere. OK. What for ? Is she connected to the overall story and if so, in what way ?

As far as the greater scheme of things is concerned, I cannot help but be think of Moriarty's line in The Abominable Bride : "Is it gothic enough ? Ridiculous enough ? Mad enough ?". It ties to what I consider to be the greatest aspect of The Reichenbach Fall namely that there was no "line of code" that could open any door; the whole multilevel robbery was executed using a very basic, simple technique (good old fashion, no tech bribery).

Perhaps the solution to this seemingly complex and delightfully baroque problem will be equally down-to-earth. I would love it ! :D

[u/[deleted]]

Anyone else get a Jimmy Savile vibe about that villain

[u/elsolvia]

I thought Toby Jones was really, really good this episode. Hyped for next weekend.

[u/Viper711]

Emotionally drained. That was the most intense episode so far. Simply amazing.

[u/Chiara_85]

Oh, also, I forgot : there definitely must be something up with John's blog. They made a point of mentioning it several times in last week's episode and tonight, they did it again.

Added to the "John blog page.jpg" element of The Six Thatchers, there is something fishy about the whole thing.

[u/helterstash]

Well, that red herring: "I'm not given to outbursts of brotherly affection - you know what happened to the other one." WE ASSUMED ALL ALONG IT WAS A BROTHER BECAUSE OF THE WAY THIS WAS WORDED. DAMMIT

[u/Hanoobftw]

My guess is that there are actually four Holmes siblings, Euros, Sherlock, Mycroft and Sherrinford, and that Euros and Sherrinford aren't the same person. Holmes did say that "People always tend to stop searching after three" this episode, so this might be some type of obscure fourth-wall foreshadowing

[u/HerRoyalSpyness]

Maybe it's just me being an American, but the villian in this episode gave off a huge Donald Trump vibe for me.

[u/PerfectlyNormal77]

Moffat...you bastard. You evil, sadistic, glorious, magnificent bastard.

Creepiest villain ever?

Check.

Mrs. Hudson being a f*cking badass?

Check.

Sherlock going out with The Woman because of John?

Check.

Mycroft getting some?

Check.

That ending?

CHECK.

Bravo, sir.

[u/BitByADeadBee]

Euros is played by Siân Brooke

But Brooke isn't her real surname.

Don't we know somebody else who used Brook as a fake surname..?

[u/Itsremon]

My head just exploded.

[u/RVBY1977]

Of all of the things I loved about this episode my favorite part has to be the biggest reveal of the night; Sherlock did not dream up saving Irene Adler!

I had a legit geek out moment when I heard that ring tone.

[u/Chuuucky24]

Sherlock saying "I don't wanna die" broke my heart honestly.

[u/HellaNahBroHamCarter]

It's a pretty amazing & funny coincidence that the episode after everyone complaining that Sherlock is turning into James Bond features a car chase with the initial implication that Sherlock was driving an Aston Martin

[u/svavil]

In a nutshell: if you are a serial killer, please refrain from bragging.

On an unrelated note, they did their best to translate the "cereal" pun into Russian. They failed.

[u/itsDiven_]

That was the best fucking episode ever. It had such intense moments, emotional moments and moments where I felt as high as Sherlock.

[u/AbraKedavra]

So um. Sherlocks brother is a chick then?

[u/SevenTom]

Moral of the story: Every random character shown in the beginning scenes of each episode of Sherlock turns out to be the baddie in the end. Time and time again.

Beginning of the episode today I said: "Hey look, a random therapist character, can't wait for the baddie reveal at the end". Then, boom. Hello secret sister.

[u/superdroid100]

Is anyone getting a sort of deja vu from S01E01 A Study in Pink? While on the way to the murder scene Sherlock incorrectly assumed it was a brother and not a sister.

[u/itsmattia]

ONE THING: MARY'S CHARACTER IS INTELLIGENTLY WRITTEN IN THIS ONE AND LET JOHN BEING AN OPEN BOOK EVEN IF HE DOESN'T WANT TO AND THAT'S AMAZING

[u/Pharmacololgy]

Of course I didn't call the police, I'm not a civilian!

If she's not a civilian, then what is Mrs. Hudson?

[u/2piRsquare]

Mrs Hudson is on FIRE this episode. Threatening with a gun, one of the 3 smartest people we know of and stuffing him in the trunk of a car, then escaping a police chase? Then dealing with Mycroft in the apartment? I guess she really isn't a housekeeper.

[u/[deleted]]

That ending absolutely makes up for 1million Marys.

[u/LRedditor15]

I was getting some Doctor Strange vibes during those "high" scenes near the beginning.

[u/duffking]

subsequent library friendly meeting divide light cautious political elderly jar

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/TacticalRab]

There has to be a fourth sibling... sherrinford still hasn't been explained.. people always stop looking after three right?

[u/[deleted]]

Glad to see a more "classic" Sherlock episode. After the first one I was worried they would take the show in a totally different direction. Fucking Mrs. Hudson and her Aston Martin. 😂 I'm glad the boys are back. Now I'm just depressed that we have one more episode then an indefinite wait....

[u/georgiapaige]

They literally told us from the start it was hiding in plain sight... did anyone actually see that coming?!

[u/cellequisaittout]

My husband wants to know if the Internet has called Eurus "HERlock" or "SHElock" yet.

[u/sunscreenonface]

That Final Problem trailer tho...Sherlock and John get caught in a massive explosion?? I thought this was a UK production, not a US one.

[u/Sandorawr]

That reveal aside, this was such an amazing episode!! My heart actually broke into pieces when John said that Sherlock killed Mary.... And then again with "The man that you thought I am, is the man that I want to be" 😭

[u/heirtotyrone]

I loved that detail at the end, where Sherlock said something followed by "isn't that right Mary?" And then cut to an empty room

Kinda showed John's redemption and signified him finally moving on from her death

[u/DidHeSeeMe]

Excellent acting by all. I absolutely loved the Saville-esque character. Fantastic. Some of my thoughts are:

• Why stop at three : Could Sherringford be a fourth sibling who was keeping the sister secure?

• Miss me : Might be nothing to do with Moriarty. Maybe it is a case of 'missing' the sister?

• Another thought is that Sherlock might not know he actually had a sister, hence not recognising her.

[u/dapperwocky]

Okay.. throwing my two cents in (in a very shortened form).

Eurus was sectioned by Mycroft > Met "Moriarty" at a psych institution > They became an item > "Moriarty" is released > acts as criminal consultant on Eurus' behalf (Much like Moriarty, she doesn't want to get involved but control from sidelines).

Motives: Who the fuck knows

[u/relaxok]

I know for some reason fans love this sort of thing, but i really hate how most tv writers just start doing stuff with marriage and babies and siblings to advance the overall story arc. I too miss the focus being on the individual mysteries.

[u/Remermemermsdays]

That was quite simply astounding. I was hysterical by the end. Fucking amazing. They deserve whatever award can possibly be hurled their way for that performance. Bravo.

[u/[deleted]]

Gotta love Sister Holmes, Mycroft slaying Lady Smallwood, Sherlock getting high as f***!

[u/WobblyGoatcheese]

Was that "how long have you been working here?" a threat to their jobs or something. Because it didn't sound like that so I assumed that the staff knew something about Smith.

[u/martinferdinand]

I loved that moment in the limousine when Mary explains to John (read : john figures out on his own) how Sherlock figured everything out two weeks in advance, a nice reminder that John is brilliant and not just a reckless blogger with a crush

[u/NarcissticNarwhal]

Im guessing John isnt dead then, judging by the trailer which showed him alive and well about 40 secs after the cliffhanger

[u/Akuba101]

Somehow Mary is still caught up in this, her DVD is labelled 'miss me.'

[u/DriedSocks]

When Sherlock was lying in the hospital bed and he and John were talking about where the last recording device was and they both gave each other the look, I genuinely thought Sherlock had stuck it up his butt.

[u/darthdarkseid]

My boy Mycroft getting some

[u/Flabby-Nonsense]

I was slightly disappointed by the whole case regarding Smith, Smith was a fantastic villain - but unless i'm missing something the whole case was "I think he's a serial killer, and it turns out he's a serial killer" with talking in-between in order to stop us from realising that there wasn't a whole lot of any actual investigating happening.

I enjoyed the episode as a whole, and i'm looking forward to the next one (though I hope her reasoning isn't "Mum and Dad never loved me like they loved you and Mycroft")

[u/ubiquitous0bserver]

So... this was definitely a bad episode to only be partially paying attention to, that's for sure!

That said, Toby Jones was fantastically creepy as serial killer Jimmy Savile! Mrs. Hudson was also fantastic, but I can't help but feel like this is a bit of a 180^o on her character?

Are we gonna see Irene Adler next week? God, it's been so long since series 2 came out that it's all mostly faded from my head...

Also, THAT ENDING WHAT THE FUCK - is that lady Sherrinford??? Moriarty's sibling??? What's going to happen to John?!? God, I seriously need to rewatch that again!

[u/CaptCoulson]

probably kind of a nitpick, but was anyone else just a teensy bit disappointed to see the context reveal of Mrs Hudson's "get out of my house, you reptile" to Mycroft? I don't know, I mean just given the obviously very dark overall tone they were showing with the first trailer for the whole series, I couldn't help thinking that when she'd say that in the show, it was going to be during this sort of "there is NO coming back from this", real watershed moment between the characters. That like Mycroft has been revealed to have done something so vile and despicable, Mrs Hudson feels maybe in the moment she never even wanted to see his face again.

But what actually IS here... sure, she's disappointed with Mycroft he didn't take the initial hint and tried to remain the room, but I don't exactly see her holding some like blood oath over his name always and forever now. She was just really icked by him in the moment, she'll get over it relatively soon.

[u/legolegolaslegs]

Only problem is Mycroft gets dumber and dumber.

Supposed to be Sherlocks superior but he pretty much only knows where John is all the time, thats his only skill.

[u/unopeia]

I thought that was brilliant. I struggled with season 3 and equally was unimpressed with T6T but I really, really enjoyed that. It felt like classic Sherlock again. Cannot wait to see it all pan out next week!

[u/ozanbingol]

1. "Dr. John Watson: The game is over. Sherlock Holmes: The game is never over, John. But there may be some new players now. That's OK, the East Wind takes us all in the end. Dr. John Watson: What's that? Sherlock Holmes: It's a story my brother told me when we were kids. The East Wind is a terrifying force that lays waste to all in its path. It seeks out the unworthy and plucks them from the earth. That was generally me."

2. ”Dr. John Watson: Well, if he is … he’d better wrap up warm. There’s an East Wind coming.”

-His Last Wow (Season 3 - Episode 3)

[u/Farfener]

First off, kudos on creating an enemy so slimy that even looking at him made me want to be sick.

There were other weaknesses of course, but the only thing I have to say bullshit to is the fact that the operator in the camera room didn't know if Sherlock was with someone. No. Sorry, big fat no. If you've ever been in London, you know that they have more than enough cameras about to know that for certain. Plus, they had a helicopter! Nope, absolute twaddle that line, which is a shame because it kinda brings everything else crashing down with it. Very very poor writing for a show that has generally excellent writing.

[u/[deleted]]

Smith : Its password protected!

Sherlock : Oh, please!

[u/[deleted]]

It seems this is not a very popular opinion, but I don't think this episode was that much better than last week's. I liked the villain and the main story, but I think there was just too much going on, I don't think the characters were written that well and the whole Euros plot seems ridiculous/improbable (but that could be sorted out in the next episode I guess, we'll wait and see). It just seemed like a very good episode with loads of stuff that were not necessary just thrown in and with all the flaws of the series and Moffat's writing amplified.

[u/08TangoDown08]

This episode was far better but I'm just getting a bit tired of the way every single tiny little thing is connected to a bigger conspiracy in this show. Why can't we just have one off cases?

[u/SevenTom]

Anyone else think that when the blonde woman was eating chips with Sherlock at the beginning, she sounded kind of Scottish for a moment? Because I thought she did and for a second I thought she was the redhead on the bus. Then I was like "Oh no this one is English, never mind." Lol.

[u/TheDucksBack]

Why didn't Sherlock recognise Eurus (sp?) as Faith or as the therapist? And how come we didn't recognise the same actress as those two or as E??

[u/jjzpgg]

What an episode. Toby Jones was absolutely brilliant, never really seen him in anything before. "Maintain eye contact", super creepy. And that reveal at the end!

[u/VV1N73RMVT3]

Wait a second...If the girl who came to see Sherlock was Eurus, then who was the girl we saw at the beginning, being upset by whatever Culverton was doing? In fact what was the reason for that entire meeting? Culverton wanted to tell all those people he wants to kill someone just for kicks? And no one is surprised he has mind wiping drugs? Seems like something MI6 would want to know about....

[u/FireTails11]

Such a MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT on the mess that was last week. The narrative is simpler and more purposeful. It has a definitive start and end point and has less over-complicated unnecessary and irrelevant events getting in the way of the main story. This episode was literally a breath of fresh air, now that Mary is literally just a memory and everything has been reduced back down to the traditional Sherlock/Watson/Mrs Hudson/Molly Hooper dynamic it's like the mess last week never happened. The episode is definitely more unified and cohesive. But this is what I want Sherlock to be always. It can be funny and emotional and full of action yes. But I want to see how dark the show can go, how twisted the villains can get. Culverton's monologue at the hospital surrounded by children is one of the most tantalising and tense scenes I have ever seen on the show. One minor thing I didn't like is how in some ways the character of Culverton and his story as a serial killer was sort of wasted and was really only used as a way to unite John and Sherlock back together again (as Mary said, the only way to save John is for John to save Sherlock. So Culverton was really just a case Sherlock targeted in order to reconcile and get closer to Jon once more). I mean when you reduce it down, however creepy and well developed Toby Jones' character was, he was nothing more than a serial killer that Sherlock used to make amends with John while also being able to catch Culverton out and get a confession along the way. Culverton's case was really just a way to bring the character's back together, his confession and his case being solved was just a secondary effect. Culverton's case and back story seemed to be a little rushed, his character open and closed quicker than I really wanted it to.

That being said, this episode was excellent. Toby Jones is such an excellent actor and he played the mind of a dark and twisted serial killer perfectly. What I really like about this story and this episode is how psychological the narrative is and how the story is layered to show us how fragile the human mind can be. We see the effects and repercussions of Sherlock's paranoid drug addled mind, dampening his senses and his genius capabilities, his addiction being a symptom of his guilt for Mary and his separation from John. We see John's frail mental state after losing Mary and becoming a single father, represented by Mary being a constant figment of his imagination, always looking over his shoulder. We see Culverton's twisted and unhinged mind. The episode tied up everything from last episode seamlessly and was perfectly balanced in terms of character driven and mystery driven content. Until the very last few moments it is the mystery and the antagonist that drive the plot forward. And then at the end it is the character's themselves, their developing stories, their behaviours, their relationships that ultimately solve the case. That's the way it should be.

[u/HahaNotAgain]

I knew something was up with the therapist when she picked up John's phone (Why didn't John find it weird?), but I never would have guessed that.

[u/FireTails11]

However implausible John's affair was last episode, I wasn't angry about it this episode because they used it as a way to show and develop John and Mary's relationship as well as the relationship we have with John as a character. In a way we as an audience are all like Mary, we really didn't know everything about John and what we thought we knew was the person that he can only aspire to be.

I almost started crying because it felt like we as an audience underestimated him and, like Mary, we kept perceiving John as a perfect husband and as a human without any flaws but that's just not the reality. Definitely on board with this development of John's character. However out of the blue his affair came to all of us, he proved all of us wrong by showing us he's not the perfect man, he has flaws and he has weaknesses and wanting to aspire to that image of perfection that we and Mary have of him is what makes him such a great character.

[u/lambrinibudget]

I'm still mad that redeemed Mary is a thing, BUT OMG THAT EPISODE WAS AMAZING. JOHN??????

[u/benc777]

Honestly thought she was going to be Moriarty and do some Mission Impossible face mask thing

[u/pointtini]

While I didn't dislike the Six Thatchers, I was a bit disappointed by it and a little bit scared the series had lost its magic.

This was an excellent episode.

Mrs Hudson is the best.

[u/[deleted]]

To be a total cynic, didn't Moffat do the exact same thing with the master in Dr Who.

Tbh I think he did better on the second try which is something

[u/[deleted]]

Okay, so brilliant episode. Absolute belter. What a twist! One thought though: I still believe that what we have seen so far is not necessarily a true version of events. This feeling started with the Swedish spy joke deduction in ep1, then continued with the word screen transitions and effects. Even the fact that Sherlock did the voiceover, which is a first. The whole tone of the episode just didn't fit, and seemed somehow ethereal. Now, after ep2, I am more convinced. The episode introduced Bliss (TB12) which, when shown on "Faith" at the beginning, used the same visual effects. My personal opinion is that Sherlock is being (somehow) administered a small enough dosage of this to keep him pliable, and affecting his memories, leading to an unreliable narrator scenario. Just one fans (probably crackpot) theory. Still want to know what/if the water hints are leading up to.

[u/[deleted]]

I feel pretty stupid but can someone explain the connection between culverton and sherlock's sister? Did culverton send her? My mind was too fucked to comprehend what was going on

[u/L8141]

"why does everyone always stop at 3?' So does that mean that Eurus and Sherrinford are two different people? so there.are 4 Holmes siblings. Like when John said is he locked up in a twoerr somewhere. Could we assume Sherrinford is in an institution or something and that's why Mycroft has to phone at particular times and is put on hold. Or is Eurus actually Sherrinford and the twist was he's a she

[u/Corydoran]

In the beginning, I thought John was sleeping with E from last week, and I was disappointed that he was sending Rosie away so he could spend time with E. I felt rather bad for him when it was revealed that he was hallucinating sleeping and spending time with Mary.

[u/[deleted]]

I love the mirror from the pilot.

"Harry's short for Harriet."

"Harry's your sister."

[u/Extra_Firm_Tofu]

ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

[u/RuafaolGaiscioch]

Well you all seem to have loved it, but I wasn't sold. The memory serum confession thing struck me as extremely implausible from the beginning, and the show seemed all over the place for the first 2/3rds. It wrapped up well, but overall wasn't my favorite.

[u/neoblackdragon]

Alright from now on Sherlock needs to do background checks on every single person his friends know.

[u/Sherlockthebrave]

This was a brilliant, painful episode and I loved every second of it. On a second rewatch it looks like the original daughter is shown at the beginning, played by the second actress (not Eurus)--I can't believe I didn't notice that it was a different person! I like how Eurus is good at disguises, like Sherlock is supposed to be in ACD canon.

It reminded me of Elementary in a way--a self-contained episode about a disgusting, horrible serial killer, and Sherlock wins in the end. Honestly he doesn't win a lot of these--Moffatt said something about it being more interesting when he loses, which I agree with, just would be nice for our boy to get a win once in awhile.

The acting was utterly phenomenal. From hilarious, with Hudders and Sherlock and his Shaksperian rants, to utterly heartbreaking, John pummeling Sherlock and them hugging it out in the end after John breaks down sobbing. I get that John was cracking up, and he knows he has problems he's got to work out, which somewhat redeemed him pretty much abusing Sherlock earlier in the show. I still don't think it's right, and I think he's got some story karma to work through before he's clear of it, but it was very real and very human. Sherlock actually hugging someone to comfort them, and John sobbing was just heartrending. Martin you've done it again, and Benedict was just as brilliant throughout the entire thing. It was nice to see so much John and Sherlock teamwork in this one, and I absolutely loved Mary's asides and showing up randomly. John needs to be pushed like that, and I'm glad she was still sort of there to do so.

And the twist at the end? Love it! Now this is the show that we've waited years for!

[u/echolog]

Me, 5 minutes before the end of the episode, thinking everything was resolved: Wow, this was a great episode. One of the best yet!

Me, after the end of the episode: WTFHOLYSHIT

[u/Lorne_Soze]

Jeremy Clarkson- "On tonight's programme, I masquerade as Mrs. Hudson."

[u/1FuknNurd]

am I the only one who is excited about The woman? She's still texting, they must end this line some how!!

[u/yokcos700 → u/[deleted]]

Mycroft: calls her up
"Yes, I'd like to take you up on your offer of a drink. Get me a cup of tea."

[u/RangaSpartan → u/[deleted]]

Most gripping part of the episode for sure.