The Six Thatchers: Post-Episode Discussion Thread (SPOILERS) - Reddit

[u/GoFlight]

[u/threegarridebs]

Just realized that it's weird that Sherlock didn't know John was cheating (or thinking about cheating) on Mary. Deducing a cheating spouse is practically one of his favorite deductions. And if he did know, seems like Sherlock would have confronted John about it.

[u/Erfivur → u/threegarridebs]

There is undoubtedly more than meets the eye to this. It's too far out of character for him to be simply cheating, the show WANTS you to think that... surely?

[u/BitByADeadBee]

-who is E and what relevance will she bear?

-Norbury quoted Moriarty

-Go to hell Sherlock - didn't he say he'd meet Moriarty there?

-Save John Watson - maybe Mary worked for Moriarty (like in TAB) and she knows he's going after John?

[u/[deleted] → u/BitByADeadBee]

"Save John Watson" was the clue that lead them to John in the Guy Faulks fire.

[u/shinwell_johnson → u/BitByADeadBee]

Norbury is a reference to 'The Yellow Face', a case which Holmes didn't solve.

[u/nazakar]

Next episode: Mary's not dead, mycroft is pregnant and james moriarty is watson's brother

[u/2piRsquare → u/nazakar]

And it's twins

[u/FireTails11]

Can we go back to the days where the episode would focus on one case. Mystery, intrigue and hilarity would ensue and Sherlock would solve that one case in a charming act of genius and wit.

[u/theblackpeacock]

That moment when you read all the comments and can't make any sense of them and suddenly realize that you were watching the Sherlock special "Abominable Bride" while the rest of the world was actually watching the first episode of Sherlock.

[u/[deleted] → u/theblackpeacock]

This is the best comment I've seen. Amazing

[u/uluviel]

I'll need to watch it again before I can form a proper opinion because I spent most of the episode going, "ok, when's the 'it was all a dream' reveal happening?" because it seemed so disjointed and weird, especially the editing.

Mary dead - rather expected, though I thought she'd outlast episode 1. Could have sworn she was in a scene with Culverton in the second trailer but I went back and it turned out she wasn't, so maybe she's gone for good. Guess only Sherlock can survive being shot in the chest.

Baby still around - huh. Wasn't expecting that.

Thought there'd be more Moriarty, but I guess they're keeping that for episode 3.

"Amo" - Does this tie in with the "I love you" Sherlock says in the second trailer?

John's cheating - we'll hear about this again (otherwise what was the point of including this?) The woman was sitting in front of a poster of Culverton Smith the last time we saw her, that probably wasn't a coincidence. She's involved with Culverton somehow.

Final thought - how were the reviews all so positive!?

ETA: also, really disappointed this didn't tie in with the Six Tatchers entry on the blog. That was sloppy, considering the blogs are supposed to be canon and were actually mentioned in the episode.

[u/TheRainbowConnection → u/uluviel]

Baby still around - huh. Wasn't expecting that.

Not sure why everyone thought they were going to kill off the baby... that's a bit dark, even for Gatiss/ Moffat.

[u/KarlKastor]

I bet the woman John was texting is connected to Moriarty.

[u/Kazzack → u/KarlKastor]

she's moriarty in a wig

[u/uluviel → u/KarlKastor]

I'm betting on connected to Culverton, myself.

Either way, I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the last of her.

[u/WhiteHimself]

The Watson balloon deflated in the end.

[u/MadRedMC → u/WhiteHimself]

I thought it was a nice detail.

[u/NuclearPissOn]

The best part was the little mystery at the start which got all of 5 minutes of screen time.

[u/[deleted] → u/NuclearPissOn]

The only thing I didn't like was it felt a bit too convenient that he just happened to get a seizure. Sherlock seemed very confident that that was the case without any medical evidence, but it's a minor detail I suppose

At first I thought it was going to be darker, with the boy accidentally restraining and suffocating himself

[u/-Dandere-]

What was that at the end with 'Go to hell Sherlock' ??

[u/uluviel → u/-Dandere-]

There's a lot of Moriarty = devil symbolism on the show.

Go to hell = go face Moriarty, save John.

That's my assumption for now.

[u/favsiteinthecitadel]

Anyone else pissed off about John's affair? I really hate this plot line, especially when it feels out of character.

I think if they had not established Moriaty had planned something, this episode would not have felt so underwhelming.

[u/Aruu → u/favsiteinthecitadel]

It's extremely out of character; it feels like they only did it to make Mary look less shit by comparison.

[u/jerzerk]

It's kinda weird that the series you get to watch every two years has fillers

[u/thisnamehasfivewords → u/jerzerk]

Yeah seriously, there was a lot of repeated scenes/imagery, and voiceover that was more or less redundant/repetitive. It seems like they're trying to go back to the 'style' of the first two series, and not be so jokey/wink to the camera like series 3 started off being, but.... I'm not sure how I feel about how this is going. Granted, the series isn't not over yet. The writers clearly have a plan, I'm going to trust that it'll make sense later.

[u/RGodlike → u/jerzerk]

I wouldn't call this filler; it's wrap-up of a terrible storyline (anything connected to Mary). Personally, I'd have been fine with her staying at home and taking care of the child (and never mentioning her past again), effectively writing her out of the series. Other episodes (Hound of Baskerville) are basically filler as they are not really connected to the main plot, but I love those episodes. A Study in Pink was perfect in that way for me: stand-alone plot, with a hint of a bigger plot regarding Moriarty.

[u/nidsmotherfucker]

Remember when Sherlock could work on a case and it wasn't directly tied into someone he knew

[u/dankowskimd → u/nidsmotherfucker]

I was almost ready to see mrs Hudson in the aquarium.

[u/siluro11 → u/nidsmotherfucker]

The one with a hound . I think it was just a case

[u/mellotronworker → u/nidsmotherfucker]

Sadly, that's The Moffat Effect, also noticed all over Dr Who.

[u/Maukeb]

It's like they tried to remember what made season 1 great, and decided it must be overlays.

[u/bacon_cake → u/Maukeb]

And whooshing sounds when screens move around.

[u/riyten]

Someone else has mentioned the water symbolism but there was a whole lot of red/occult imagery here as well. Off the top of my head:

• "You can't be both the Antichrist and the devil", John says to Mary

• There's a flashback scene featuring a girl [edit: this is actually childhood Sherlock]in red wellies and a red setter dog.

• When Sherlock realises its the receptionist, he's on Vauxhall Bridge (painted red) with a red life ring and a red London bus in the background.

• John is represented by a red balloon.

• John and Mary have new red wallpaper, "To mask an old smell" according to Sherlock's thoughts.

• Their daughter is called Rosie.

• John's mistress, E, is a red head and calls herself a vampire.

• That whole episode with a bloodhound.

• Mycroft wears a red tie and pocket handkerchief.

• Sherlock confronts Mary in a church. Also Mary and John are both biblical names.

• And of course, the "Go to hell" line after the credits.

I'm probably going too deep here. But I think there's definitely something about the choices between water and (hell)fire. The denouement in the aquarium followed by a cremation for example. Or Rosie's baptism, featuring holy water. I'm not quite Sherlock enough to piece it together but there's something going on there.

Also, Mary is definitely not dead, sorry. Listen to her wording on the DVD: "When I'm gone, IF I'm gone..."

[u/[deleted]]

I guess Mary read the script and decided to throw herself in front of that bullet...

[u/prstele01 → u/[deleted]]

And jumping AFTER the gun was fired...I audibly yelled, "OH COME ON!"

[u/laingc]

WTF? Did John really cheat though, that's my question.

[u/ChrisTinnef → u/laingc]

Don't think so. He probably only saw that girl on the bus every few days and chatted with her. Not more.

[u/Saeleth]

OKAY! What is up with the Water Theme? So much water this episode.

[u/Neverbethesky → u/Saeleth]

Benedict said there was a lot of foreshadowing going on... back to the pool scene with Moriarty?

[u/JackVS1]

What the fuck did the old Ammo woman do again?

[u/FlyingSquid → u/JackVS1]

Well first she called in the... She gave the code to.... She told the terrorists that... shit, I have no idea.

[u/[deleted]]

First time I've been really disappointed with Sherlock. They didn't even seem like the same characters.

[u/defjamvienetta]

That's a long and maudlin setup for two men and a baby.

[u/zombieatemyhead]

I honestly waited for Moriarty to do the Nagini thing like in Deahtly Hallows and jump out of the old lady.

[u/GuiltyCynic]

Not impressed with this first episode. Seemed all over the place.

• I disliked the whole 'Mary is a secret assassin' storyline in the first place, but somehow I don't feel as though that storyline has ended despite her death.

• I feel like the coincidence of the dead kid in the car and the bust being broken is a little too unbelievable (unless they come back to this later somehow).

• Sherlock should have looked up where the Thatcher busts were made much sooner. It was immediately obvious (since no other Thatcher related items were destroyed, and the busts appeared hollow when broken) that someone was looking for something hidden inside the busts. Seems like something he'd have immediately clocked onto in previous episodes - this is the first time I've felt as though they dumbed down Sherlock to suit a plot point.

[u/HistoryScienceGaming → u/GuiltyCynic]

Sherlock, if it was season 1 or 2, would have thought about the busts being hollow right away. It's completely unbelievable that it took him so long, I agree.

[u/Russell_Ruffino]

I'm really not getting this USB thing.

So all 4 members of AGRA had a USB with everyone's aliases etc on it. And this stops them betraying each other?

If someone could explain the benefit of any of this to me I'd be grateful.

So what do they do if just one of them gets captured and doesn't have time to hide?

Also I thought this was a pretty weak episode. Can it please go back to him solving one big case per week.

[u/Pyronaut44 → u/Russell_Ruffino]

In principle it's a good idea, each member of AGRA has leverage over the others to ensure loyalty.

The problem is they take these sticks out on operations with them... such a batshit stupid idea.

[u/Ivashkin → u/Russell_Ruffino]

Unencrypted USB sticks...

[u/GimmeCat]

Ah, so the traitor was you all along! Mrs... person... we've never met before. Who... what was your name again??

[u/bacon_cake]

With these responses I'm just imagining some BBC executives looking at the master copies of the next two episodes that delve deeper into Mary's betrayal and past life as an assassin and ultimately finish on a cliff hanger with Moriarty not returning at all and just thinking "oh shit"

[u/BacardiWhiteRum]

How did she have time to jump in front of the bullet?

When Sherlock fought AJ why did they fall in the swimming pool when there's a 4 foot gap between the window and the pool?

How can Sherlock fight a spy?

Why did AJ stop fighting Sherlock because Sherlock turned on a tap and got his face a bit wet?

When did they track the memory stick? At what point did Sherlock and Watson do that?

How is the memory stick inside the Thatcher head?

Also the phone overlays are awful

Edit: and I didn't find most of this episode funny

[u/[deleted] → u/BacardiWhiteRum]

You forgot the exploding car. Why did it just explode? The whole case around it was sketchy to begin with.

[u/summertimefine]

"I hate this story" - yeah Sherlock I can relate

[u/fralamp88]

You know it's bad when one of the main character dies and you don't feel even the slightest bit of emotion. They basically kept us interested only by throwing a bunch of Moriarty references here and there, only to discover that it was really just the fucking Mary case.

So underwhelming.

Please correct me if I didn't understand correctly, so John is angry at Sherlock because he made a vow to protect them and wasn't able to fulfill it? Is that it?

[u/Conkoon → u/fralamp88]

He's hardly to blame, I'm sure he didn't expect Mary to break the laws of physics and dive in front of a bullet at close range. Also, Watson let her go first, definitely his fault.

Joking aside, I hate that trope.

[u/Maukeb]

I enjoyed this episode of Mary and Friends. Not sure how they will handle the death of the titular character next episode.

[u/Rab_Legend]

Anyone else not give two fucks about this whole Mary story?

Edit: also who the fuck has a knee high gap in their wall?!?!

[u/stunts002 → u/Rab_Legend]

Yes thank you. What the hell was with that wall? I mean above all the obvious things isn't that a terrible feature for a psychiatrists office where patients can feel like they're talking in privacy

[u/Minticus-Maximus]

"It's a good thing the English woman betrayed him. Let us talk loudly about her in front of him, in case someone needs to overhear these details"

It's like a fucking episode of Scooby Doo

[u/ButthurtMcFaggington → u/Minticus-Maximus]

I mean, that part is not so unbelievable. He was there for years, it's not that farfetched that in all that time a guard might've slipped up. What bothers me far more is his conclusion that "the English woman" obviously has to be Mary, the woman he considered family.

[u/McKayDLuffy]

Can we all take a moment of silence for the real hero of this episode? Double vinyl car seat boy. All he wanted to do was surprise his parents on his dad's/mom's (can't remember which it was) birthday.

That part made the whole episode.

[u/lambrinibudget]

I am really annoyed that to redeem Mary's character they had John cheat. I'm also really annoyed that apparently we were suppose to take the forgiveness scene last season at face value. I can't even be happy that Mary's dead, because all this time I was hoping for more. But no, it turns out the writers really are just that bad.

[u/Phiryte]

While I'm slightly disappointed with this episode--though it was also fantastic in some ways, but Sherlock always is--I think this was always going to be a tricky episode to get right for the writers. Much like the problem they faced for last season's opener, they had to do some maneuvering to advance the plot which largely forced the case itself in the background.

For The Empty Hearse, they had to explain how Sherlock survived and show the John-forgiving-Sherlock arc, and it was hard to do that while also having a case involved. It wasn't the strongest episode, but it sort of worked because they kept the case simple, deliberately pushing it to the sidelines so that we could enjoy ourselves with the overarching plot advancement and character development.

For this episode, they likely began with a basic sketch of where they wanted to move the story forward to: Mary dies, John blames Sherlock, Sherlock is left alone trying to win John back. Presumably there was a need to do this for the purposes of wherever the next two episodes are going. But, perhaps in response to the negative reception of The Empty Hearse, instead of trying to achieve that goal with a relatively simple case so that we could focus on the overarching plot and character development, they came up with a really convoluted case so that the mystery part of the show would stay preserved. But because they were trying to make both an interesting case AND force the plot in a particular direction, it wasn't at all a natural mesh of the two, so consequently the case felt bloated and not very clever and Mary's death scene felt very forced.

Now there were parts of the episode I enjoyed immensely, but I think they tried a little too hard. Still, I'm really excited to see how this goes.

And RIP Mary :(

[u/TheJoshider10]

I really liked the episode but think the editing went a bit overboard on the flashiness. That said it was a top quality episode and for me a very good start to the season. Surprised there's so much negativity.

All the talk of moving away from the danger had such an air of finality to it.

[u/ButthurtMcFaggington → u/TheJoshider10]

One word that keeps popping up is "James Bond" (okay, two words) and I think that pinpoints one of the problems many people have with this episode. Even if you can/could explain away all the perceived inconsistencies, it's just not what many people are looking for in Sherlock. Sherlock is supposed to be the guy figuring out seemingly impossible mysteries like for example the car seat thing. Not fighting spies in a pretty straightforward "you betrayed me therefore I'll kill you"-plot. And while it is clever in a way to recognize "ammo" as "amo", figuring out that if it wasn't the boss lady then it must've been the secretary isn't exactly awe-inspiring detective work.

[u/TwentyOneParrots]

I honestly don't even care if they change the genre of the show or the type of stories they want to tell because TV shows change over time and evolve. I don't mind adventure Sherlock.

I fucking hated this episode because it was just such a badly written episode. Seriously, it's like they didn't even know which story they wanted to tell. We got halfway through before even getting a hint of a narrative through-line to follow.

Honestly just felt like Gattiss and Moffatt thought of really cool/funny things they wanted to see the characters do and built a plot around it, e.g. the little trip to Marrakesh. It didn't move the plot forward nor did it give us any significant character development. It's almost like that whole sequence was just there for 'production value' and as a cheap setup to that stupid fucking joke.

And the characters were given no respect whatsoever!!!! So many moments in the episode were cheap and emotionally manipulative, like John cheating on Mary. There was literally no build-up to it, and was there solely to make us feel something when Mary died. It didn't serve the story at all (but ofc just wait a couple weeks when it's revealed that the lady John was talking to is actually a part of Moriarty's cult ooooooooo).

Just a terrible episode all around. ugh. three years for this shit.

[u/ILOVEGLADOS]

Can't say I've ever been the biggest fan of Mary's storyline. She was always at her best as a minor side character, something to push the plot forward. This invented backstory where she is a superspy just stunk of trying too hard and it's reached its peak tonight. I cannot see them bringing her back from the dead, if they do I'll be bitterly disappointed.

I felt it started well and ended well but the middle was so convoluted with so many plotpoints intertwining together, it just got a bit tangled.

The overhanging Moriarty thread really didn't help either, I can see what they're trying to do but considering how long we've waited, to just continue to let it dangle was a bit annoying, again tying into Mary's story was a bit too much.

It really didn't feel like a Sherlock episode to me; mainly because it became The Mary Show for a good 20 minutes which is kinda ridiculous.

I've always said I kinda like it when the show gets emotional and sappy as it humanise's the characters, Sherlock especially, but with so little of him actually being present in the final 3rd it didn't have the same effect.

Ultimately it was a Sherlock episode and it hit all the usual marks in terms of acting, cinematography etc, the main cast can do no wrong.

A good detective show has intelligent misdirection to confuse it's audience but deliver a satisfying conclusion. This episode had none of it, which is a first for Sherlock in my opinion. Even The Blind Banker had that (in small numbers admittedly)

On it's own it gets a 7/10 for me but I almost feel as if this episode took a metaphorical bullet (pun intended) for the rest of the series, if it improves the later episodes and adds further weight to the overarching series story then it's done a well-ish job. A quality show should never need this but they've written themselves into a corner with Mary and this was their get out of jail free card.

[u/[deleted]]

What parent, who just had a kid, makes a split second decision to take a bullet for not-their-kid?

[u/StopTheFeed]

This is what we waited 2 years for? Not like this.

Edit: 3 years. Forgot about 2017. 🙄

[u/[deleted]]

Oh look, it's Moffat and Gattis disappearing up their own arses again

[u/TheMiles197]

you know what... I actually really liked this episode.

[u/[deleted]]

I suppose as a piece of TV it wasn't bad. But as an episode of Sherlock it was rubbish.

[u/[deleted]]

Kinda....shitty. I was 100% sure they were going to make Mary be a villain, and the domestic be a ruse. Otherwise, like....what was the point of any of that??

And in the end, she just gets shot by a random old lady???

Where the fuck is Moriarty??????

EDIT: Wait, actually, I watched it again and had a great time. Still needs more John, but it was a fucking solid episode.

The game's still afoot!!

[u/Sanderf90]

The writers of Sherlock are getting too influenced by their audience. Half this episode feels like it is an inside joke. The mystery isn't there for Sherlock to solve, it's there for us.

It's like Steven phoned Mark in the middle of the night and said: "I've got an idea. The fans will expect answers about Moriarty right?"

"Right?"

"What if we make the first episode back not about Moriarty?"

"That's genius. On one condition though!"

"What?"

"We make most of the episode seem like it is, and then it's all about Mary."

"The fans don't like Mary."

"I knoooow!!"

"Perfect. I'll kill her off."

"But, you gotta bring her back."

"Of course. She sends a dvd-message."

"Wait! I know what the DVD should say."

Then as cherry on the cake they include the usual 'montage of cases far more interesting than the one being focused on'.

[u/Mumble-]

What a bloody shitfest of an episode.

P.S: Just stay fucking dead.

[u/voidvector8 → u/Mumble-]

Someone needs to say "Norbury" to the writers.

[u/Maukeb → u/Mumble-]

Most believable part is tories having shrines to Thatcher.

[u/ImperialSeal → u/Mumble-]

It's really gone too emotional and seems more of the writers jerking themselves off the last 2 episodes.

To add, the graphics seem to have gone really weird and abstract, needless transition effects and moody background colours.

[u/cinnamonbrook]

That E lady is going to come back and is definitely going to be working for a baddie.

Which sucks because I'm completely over that fucking storyline being used over and over and over again. "Oh look! I'm pretending to be a normal person but I'm not!" Moriarty pulled it, Sherlock pulled it, Mary Pulled it. Shit, what's next? Is Molly gonna be some supa seekret spy or some shit?

[u/Russianspaceprogram]

Best part of the episode was Watson suffering from severe constipation. That's says a lot.

[u/pwoper-nereguar → u/Russianspaceprogram]

People mock, but I feel that most of film and TV make death scenes rather unrealistic. I mean, in real life, would you really shed one silent tear or burst out with "OH GOD PLEASE NO!" or "WHEEEEHEHEheeeeeh!"? If one of the people I loved most in the world died in my arms, I'd definitely be making strange broken down noises. It's not pretty, but life isn't a TV show.

[u/SuzuyaSenpaii → u/Russianspaceprogram]

According to BBC's subtitles: his bewails

[u/ScottFromScotland]

I wasn't a fan of season 3 so my expectations were low, still pretty disappointed though.

[u/[deleted]]

Well we'll always have S1&2...

[u/PcFish]

Anyone else keep getting reminded about Freeman and Abbington's divorce while watching this?

[u/23107]

Busts were cooked in kiln so,..... Memory stick invincible?

[u/teganfruit]

okay, well that was unexpected - the whole episode, really. Ngl it didn't make much sense but none of the Sherlock episodes ever do the first time around. This was completely different to what any Sherlock episode has ever been - they took a risk, possibly one that didn't play out very well but hey that's what risks are. I'm also not going to lie that I'm slightly happy that Mary is dead - this episode was a blatant attempt to get rid of Mary and I suppose I'm okay with that if it means the rest of this series isn't like...this. here's to hoping episode 2 is of higher esteem than this.

[u/apesandbaboons]

Wtf was that noise John made

[u/[deleted]]

Complete and utter rubbish. Cringe, cliche, predictable and boring. Personally, I just don't like the character of Mary anyway.

[u/thejamsterx]

Anyone else think there was too much filler in this episode? Like 10 minutes of Mary pointlessly trying to hide and John's love interest.

[u/furyass]

My thoughts on the episode. All in all I enjoyed it but there were a few things that I noticed. I did wait 3 years for this...

Good: Toby the dog was cute

Bad; ~The opening scene. Since when has Sherlock given a fuck about ginger nuts. Also what's everyone going to think,. there's a video of Sherlock shooting magnusen in the leg... everyone's just going to accept that it's just a coincidence that he's also dead?

~classic stereotypical hacker has to be a fat guy with glasses.

~why was Mary at the hackers house...

~AJ seemed to really want that flash drive. He's a freelance assassin and he had a gun, why did he not just shoot Sherlock and run away with it? Also the choreography was very hard to believe in the fight scene

~Mary went on the run, she walked into a building with her gun out. What was she expecting? I thought maybe she was trying to find out more about what happened to AJ and take out the people responsible for fucking him up. But no Sherlocks inside playing with a kid and we aren't told why she went there.

~AJ talking about being captured and tortured for fun? Cmon man! Who the fuck does that, and for 6 years? So the terrorists fed him, kept him alive just to beat him up. Right. Also we're not told how he escaped....

~AJ getting shot by who? And why him, and not Mary? I thought it was Mary who was the one in danger...

~The whole affair thing. Except it's not, they didnt sleep with each other or go on any dates. Also it's so out of character, johns a very happy guy with a wife and a new born child, why the fuck would he care about some random chick who decides to give him her phone number. But most importantly it doesn't progress the story at all. I think the writer was trying to show some guilt on johns part when Mary dies. Problem is he didn't overstep, he cut it off before anything happened.

~Mary's death felt rushed and the whole thing about 'you promised to protect us' I felt didn't work. Why is John angry, I was expecting him to be too busy crying. Maybe if later on in a different scene he brought this up I might believe his anger but as I said, rushed. Seems really forced as a result, like they just want to make a rift between the two for the sake of drama.

~Also why did the secretary just give herself in?, tell Sherlock everything and just expect to walk away. Cmon this is so lazy. If I were her I would have just disappeared as she said she would do but without telling Sherlock. ~The little video at the end of the credits where Mary's pissed off at Sherlock. Wtf, u just sent him a heartfelt message about 'saving John'... Whatever that even meanzzzz

All in all a very convoluted plot with too much going on in my opinion. Also why the fuck does it say miss me on the cd with Mary in it. Mary had bloody better be moriarty otherwise at this rate I'm getting blue balls.

[u/maxxpot77]

Anyone else spot Toby Jones' character on a poster at the bus where Watson dumped the Scottish girl?

[u/medeneer]

Everything felt a bit cheap, phoned in. For a start, the transitions were used with poor discretion, opting for fleshiness as opposed to the appropriateness for the situation, and so we're left with fish swimming across the screen for 20 whole seconds...

The tone of the episode was extremely heavy-handed, very thinly orchestrated to be "sad Sherlock" or "funny Sherlock", which of course doesn't help when it is undermined by such poor pacing, which in the case of Mary's "disappearance", flashed by like an Indiana Jones sequence more than a shift in the status quo.

Of course, I haven't mentioned even more crucial elements of the episode such as the character dynamics...

[u/elsolvia]

The sound watson made...it will keep me up many a night.

[u/Leafygreencarl]

Half the plot didn't make any sense to happen and sherlock is now on a roller coaster of emotions for some reason.

Whole thing felt very cheap and over dramatic.

I still enjoy all the camera work but my God what is going on with the story and characterisation.

[u/FiliaSecunda]

Things I disliked in this episode:

1 - John's maybe-cheating. Everyone's talked about why.

2 - The reasons for his new grudge against Sherlock are unclear and specious-looking. Everyone's talked about this too. But I actually only half dislike it because it makes it look like the next episode will be about Sherlock trying to get him back, presumably by pulling him into a rip-roaring new case, and we all could use one of those.

3 - I've always liked Mary, and I thought season 3 did a remarkably good job integrating her, adding to John and Sherlock's dynamic without at all messing it up. This ep they didn't get the balance quite so good - there was very little John in the mystery, less John than Mary, and he was mostly relegated to the everyday-life-with-a-baby-and-a-weird-best-friend parts. He’s my favorite character, so this kind of hurt.

4 - Villain monologues. Two of them. “Secret agent antagonist got tortured, thinks secret agent hero betrayed him, has it in for secret agent hero” is a story that's appeared in enough other things to ring hollow. Same with “hero asks villain if she’s been selling state secrets, she admits she has and then, in a tone of satisfaction with occasional faint laughs, gives us a nice paragraph of what she thought about the encouragements and obstacles the heroes unknowingly gave her throughout this episode”.

5 - I don’t think we needed to go so much into Mary’s background, since there’s very little we haven’t seen in other stories before. She may have actually been better a mystery.

6 - Something my mom remarked on as soon as it happened: “For a doctor John did remarkably little to keep her alive.” Yeah, he had no equipment, but did no one have a cell phone to call paramedics with?

7 - What is up with the characterization of Lestrade? He never minded other coppers working with Sherlock before. Why have people got to be so jealous and possessive of people in this show? (That’s a trend that annoyed me in previous episodes, too.)

8 - Cars don’t just explode when they get hit. Why did the car explode when it got hit?

Things I liked in this episode:

1 - The case at the beginning was pretty brilliant (that poor family, though ...).

2 - The brief scene of Sherlock godfathering - it was there enough to make me go like this :D but short enough not to be cutesy.

3 - Lestrade and Sherlock's conversation about credit. It’s exactly like Sherlock not to have realized what the blog was doing there, and it was nice to watch Lestrade hilariously frustrated with him just like old times.

4 - John’s Me Substitute. The kind of surprisingly juvenile humor that’s been a part of Sherlock for a long time.

5 - The (other!) pool confrontation was intense but pretty boss.

6 - We all knew Mary couldn't be a permanent fixture on the show. When we started exploring her secret agent background I started thinking, “Oh no, they're going to try and make her evil enough that John can break up and we'll still root for him while Mary leaves, probably with the baby.” Well, no - she died protecting Sherlock, which is only fair what with that vow he's so obsessing over. A nice way to go.

7 - References to “The Six Napoleons”, that tracking dog Holmes used in that one story, and the word “Norbury” as a cure for arrogance. They were a bit overblown sometimes, but still.

8 - “Amo.” I know that bit of Latin and still didn’t guess the twist.

9 - Pretty sharks. (I’m kind of reaching here.)

It’s one of my least favorite episodes but it’s not all a trash pile.

[u/Alinchicken6]

Sad that Sherlock has gone down the path of a budget James Bond movie. It feels like they don't know where they're taking the series. Maybe they should focus more on modern adaptations of the original stories like they did in seasons 1 and 2.

[u/tHarvey303]

The constipation was hilarious but that was a mess of an episode. Did Watson not think it was worth trying to save his wife, being a medic?!? The plot line was so weird.

[u/[deleted]]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sherlock/comments/5lgxiq/the_six_thatchers_live_reaction_thread_spoilers/dbvn6xw/?context=3

Just want to gloat.

[u/StackAttack24]

No offence to Amanda Abbington, but Mary has been an absolute waste of screentime. STOP TRYING TO MAKE MARY HAPPEN. No doubt she will be back in it through flashbacks and the like

[u/lomoeffect]

I can't believe it was 5 years ago now, but 5 years ago we were all watching some of the best TV which has ever come out the BBC in A Scandal in Belgravia.

This episode was just ... awful to be totally honest.

[u/Saman239]

What a coincidence that Sherlock stumbled upon a crime that happened to be linked to Mary. What shit writing. Best part was when Mary died

[u/23107]

John cheated ! After all that crap in S03?......

[u/Rab_Legend]

Sherlock could have ended perfectly at the end of season 2

[u/[deleted]]

So what are your predictions about Mary's words at the end after the credits "Go to hell, Sherlock"?

[u/jaaardstyck]

I was really more expecting the old lady to shoot the aquarium glass in an attempt to take out EVERYONE, not just Sherlock. Seemed to be the direction the episode was heading. I mean, Sherlock had already survived one underwater fight, and we saw imagery of the shark a LOT, so I was half expecting Sherlock to fight a shark. Or possibly jump over it. Then we'd really know what direction the show was taking.

[u/creampuffle]

I'm one of those people that actually really liked Series 3 but wow, this was just a bit not good. Maybe it'll be better on a rewatch?

[u/SoyBeanExplosion]

I thought that was really pretty terrible. It suffered from all of the weaknesses of Season 3, but without any of the strengths of Season 1 and 2.

Mary is a terrible character. Even the notion that there's this expert super-spy marrying Watson is just so ridiculous. It's terrible writing and just a terrible idea. And then doubling down on that in the way they did? There's no pathos, because it's not a believable notion - the audience isn't invested in what's going on with her because there's absolutely no sense that it's plausible in the slightest.

It also suffered from the issues most things written/directed/produced by Moffat do. Particularly the dialogue, which was atrocious. That scene where the ambassador is saved by some SWAT team, and then she asks them "What took you so long?" me putting my gun to my head And then the stereotypically 'strong, don't need no man' agent replies 'Can't get the staff', and I fucking pulled the trigger. I am writing this from the grave, and I killed myself because of that scene. And then later when we get that 5 minute wild goose chase across the planet only for Sherlock to reveal that - TADA! - he placed a bug on Mary's memory stick and followed her? That whole scene was a clusterfuck. That dude bursts in with the gun and shouts "Hello again!" Kill me again.

Nobody cares about Mary or her backstory as some kind of Russian super-agent/hitman. It was a stupid idea suitable only for the lowest quality fanfiction in the first place.

I want to get this comment out there but I also want to add in an EDIT that I think one of the main reasons it felt so weak is that it doesn't seem to do very much of what are understood to be ruled that need to be followed in order to write a successful detective story.

[u/_TheNumbersAreBad_]

What a pile of absolute shitbiscuits.

[u/Chiara_85]

I appear to be in the minority but I did like it. It was far from perfect but I genuinely liked it.

Let's face it : the writers had painted themselves into a corner by turning Mary into a super agent. Once that was out there, they had to give her some context which, in this case, meant going all "James Bond". It was, at times, quite over-the-top in a vaguely dizzying and cliché way. But it was her big sendoff, so they probably thought "why not go all the way with it ?". Not my favourite style but I can live with it.

That being said, the overall theme of the episode (actions always have consequences) was brilliantly handled :

• Mary trying to run away from the shadows of her past life but dying at the hand of the very woman who had tried to entrap her all those years ago;

• Sherlock paying the price for his traditional smugness and disregard for the feelings of others. Hadn't he been so disdainful towards Vivian, she might not have shot at him (Mary tried to warn him). And he learnt from it (eg Mrs Hudson) !

• John trying to escape his domestic life with the premice of an affair, stopping just before actually cheating (believing the whole thing would be of no consequence) but ending up plagued with guilt and self-loathing over it after Mary died telling him he was the perfect husband;

• the adrenaline-junkies finally losing one of their own. Sherlock, John and Mary have spent their lives running after Death, getting into all sorts of terrible situations, just for the high of it. What goes around...

[u/metrize]

Can Sherlock go back to solving cases instead of whatever the fuck this is

[u/[deleted]]

I don't know if I saw it correctly, but I think I saw Toby Jones on a poster or something in the background when John got off the bus and the woman was sat waiting for him. Could this be a small easter egg for when he appears later in the series?

[u/SeaMothersTale]

The London aquarium is over the road from St Thomas' hospital.

Still, glad she is dead.

[u/_THE_RIGHT_QUESTION_]

-How did Mary know Norbury and Sherlock were going to be at the aquarium? Sherlock texted the location to Watson, but not to Mary. Mary never met Norbury, so there's no way she could've asked the office, like Sherlock did, even with her super spy powers.

-Mary's disc says "Miss Me?, which means it was created after the start of the episode, during Mary's pregnancy or after she had given birth to Rosie. Isn't it strange for Mary to tell Sherlock to save Watson, with such specific language, posthumously, without mentioning her newborn at all?

-Sherlock seems uncharacteristically conflicted, and mired with fatalism all episode. Was he forced to create a situation where there was a high probability of Mary's death, in order to "protect" her legacy with John?

This episode has either been epic foreshadowing and mystery-building for a season long arc, or some slapdash writing with gaping plot holes.

[u/CupcakeLegend]

I. JUST. DO. NOT. UNDERSTAND.

[u/NightFire19]

Gee am I the only one who liked this episode?

[u/Chrisixx]

4/10... I give it 4 for the few minutes of actual good television.

[u/SkywardWind]

I am quite upset about Mary's death tbh, they worked hard on making her a "cool" and likeable character (not just the annoying wife), had a good dynamic going with Sherlock, and she just dies with the classic taking-a-bullet-for-someone-else-instead-of-pushing-them-out-of-the-way? I really don't know what to think of this episode.

[u/mosc0wMule]

I'm so glad Sherlock is a family drama now. Why would we want to watch him solve mysteries when we can see him at the therapists office bleeding his heart out.

[u/pineappleacid]

What was the "Go to hell Sherlock" bit all about?

JAAAAAWWWN

[u/Godzilla0815]

i dont understand all the hate here, i really liked it.

[u/BearlyReddits]

What the fucking fuck was that?

[u/spacec0re]

I'm really really hoping now that they killed off Mary we can maybe get back into a proper mystery show?

The entire last season never gives us a damn reason for us to care about her. She suffers no consequences for any of her actions, why does Sherlock want to protect someone who is trying to ruin his life so badly and why should I care?

Give me modern Holmes/Watson back. And Watson was a shit this episode too.

1. The affair. Another thing to make us like Mary I guess? Ridiculous.

2. This man is your best friend. He literally shot a man for you and your wife. You were there. You rush in, your wife is shot and you blame your best friend for...what exactly? Not being shot instead? What the actual fuck, John. Just stop.

[u/IamSachin]

You could fit a whole country between the awesomeness of S02E01 and this episode.

[u/Sanderf90]

We can't really explain why Sherlock is obsessed with the Thatcher statue so let's make him virtually psychic while talking about interconnecting webs.

[u/Vicente_del_Bosque]

I have had concerns about the direction of Sherlock in the last season, but I still enjoyed it. This is the first time I have just flat out disliked a Sherlock episode. It's more like Doctor Who, with everything tying into everything else even when there's absolutely no reason for it to. I would take it a bit further and suggest it's also going a bit Marvel, Sherlock's deductions are becoming a bit of a superpower now.

[u/[deleted]]

Well, the setting for the climax was appropriate. The fact that it was in front of a shark tank in an aquarium is a perfect representation as to how hard this show has jumped the shark.

[u/Rileaa]

"Sentiment is a chemical defect found in the losing side."

[u/IntiemePiraat]

This episode just seem like the whole cast is improvising at the set.

"We need more drama, Homes gets too much attention"

"Let's bring Mary's past back"

"Not enough"

"What usually give a lot of drama?"

"Death"

"Shall we kill Sherlock again?"

"No, that won't work again"

"John?"

"No one will believe that"

"Mary?"

"Fuck it, why not?"

[u/A_Wonder_Named_Stevi]

This was a setup. Not the greatest episode, but an intro to 2 amazing episodes. I hope...

I think they needed to kill Mary, but that wasn't possible in 5 minutes (although she could just simply be hit by a bus..). So they rushed the whole story in one episode, so know we are set for 2 great episodes w/o Mary (to help sherlock or stand between the chemistry between Sherlock and Watson) and with an broken sherlock and still no sign of 'moriarty'.

[u/blackandgold11]

no wonder Martin and Benedict keep alluding to the show possibly ending, they're not getting the same caliber scripts so they want out.

[u/parentheses-of-doom]

The most glaring inconsistency, I think, is how Watson manages to have an affair without either Sherlock or Mary immediately knowing it. It's too much plot convenience. Either one of them is supposed to be able to deduce it effortlessly.

All in all, I liked the episode. The writing was definitely sloppy, but I feel a lot of hate it is getting stems from unrealistic expectations resulting from the three year wait.

EDIT: It doesn't matter if he really slept with her or not. The point is, he felt guilty enough about it to try and confess to Mary. That's something both Sherlock and Mary would pick up on in the first five seconds of looking at, I don't know, the mud on John's shoes?

[u/tomwardd]

Although I really love Sherlock and I've been incredibly hyped for this episode, I can't help but feel quite disappointed. The pacing was really really bad, the first half of the episode felt really muddled and confused, like we'd have these short scenes of Sherlock solving cases (like there usually is) but they were so shoe-horned into the episode and had so little screen time, that they didn't even feel fun to watch. Throughout the episode, small 10-20 second scenes were slotted between the important scenes that held no real weight and just made the episode feel bloated and frustrating to watch. Even when there was something worthwhile in these "inbetween scenes", I can't help but feel like they could have just been tacked onto the end or the start of another, longer scene.

The editing was also terrible, it was so overdone to the point where it was annoying. In previous episodes of Sherlock, the effects were minimalistic and sleek but in this episode they were really over-complicated (the text bubbles moving with the characters instead of hovering independently and the 3D transition effects).

I was also disappointed by the lack of screen time for the supporting characters ( Mrs Hudson, Molly and even John).

I really liked the end of the episode, but I can't help but think that if the rest of the episode was better, and more time was spent focusing on John and Mary's relationship, then the end would have held more emotional weight.

The episode was also badly written, I hated the fact that John was cheating on Mary (it's just so out of character!)

I love Sherlock, and I still had fun with the episode, but I really hope the next episodes are better.

[u/[deleted]]

This is the show that used to be about mysteries, right?

[u/LimJayhey]

Utter wank, Mary is a complete waste of space.

[u/magnesmagnes]

Actually I think the name "Hell" refers to a town in the north of Poland, rather than Norway. It's a seaside town right at the tip of a peninsula and this is where Mary hides her passport. When she gets on her bike, there's a map of Poland in the background. She then rides her motorcycle along a wall with the word "SOLIDARNOŚĆ" on it, which means SOLIDARITY in English and which refers to Poland's Communit-era opposition movement. It does make sense because Hel is close to Gdańsk, where the movement originated. There are some other Polish words on the wall, too. So when she says "Go to hell, Sherlock", she means the Polish town.

[u/Anubissama]

"I'm a high functioning sociopath!" ugh... if I hear that sentence one more time I am going to shoot somebody.

Hur hur, look Sherlock is acting all funny and relaxed and on drugs while everybody else is serious, this is comedy right?

"The game is on"that's something they said in the books, see? It's an adaptation!

Aaand of course those freaken living blood cells in a dried up blood drop, they never going to fix that, right?

Remember that novel way of displaying information via text messages shown on the screen we so cleverly used in the first season? Well we still do that, but now its all the time ,all the text.

Hur hur, Sherlock is so smart and everybody is so dumb, look at all those funny faces they make!

Look Sherlock is bad with babies, I'm as shocked as I am amused...

I don't know what happened but I'm betting it's the son is the murderer/victim and the trick is that the message was pre-recorded or something (called it, I'm not surprised). My my, what could be up with that totally normal looking bust of the prime minister, it's not like there is story about the six Napoleon busts and a black pearl hidden inside them(OK I admit that was a good alteration to reconnect to the Marry plot).

Lestrade is dumb, Watson is dumb but snarky, and Sherlock is snarky and witty, Character traits, right?

Lestrade is jealous of Sherlock consulting for another poliecman, sooo novel an idea

I want one of those microscopes that magically turns a drop of blood on a opaque ceramic piece in to a perfectly preserved image of blood cells on a glass slide! Also the police already analysed and catalogue the pieces but didn't notice the blood? Sure...

Oh a hacker, surely no stereotypes there... Oh look he is a fat ginger.

You know that one music theme you really like? We will play it over and over and over and over and over...

Wait... if the murderer is looking for something in the busts why didn't he start with the person who owns two? And who owns two busts of a former prime minister and keeps them in the same house?

Oh no. A slightly inconvenient water stream in to my face, my only weakness!

Those highly trained black ops mercenaries certainly like to remove their masks to make it convenient for the viewers to recognise them.

Sure, no one noticed that broken bottom on the bust with hastily showed in pieces of rocks, and surely the terrorist who caught him a literal second later didn't notice him putting anything in to the bust.

Well maybe if you don't want people to pass out, you shouldn't put them in choke holds?

Well of course Marry is going to react reasonable and work together with Sherlock... she is just going to run away to deal with the problem herself like in all the cliches in the whole world isn't she?

Being an obnoxious easily to spot and remember character. That sounds like a reasonable disguise... So she moves complete randomly to a location with a prepared fake passport? Padding! Padding! We promised people a 1,5h episode and we will deliver, no matter how much padding we will need for that! Oh look Sherlock is there, colour me absolutely not surprised and not impressed.

Well ministry spy women (I don't care for your name you are in only this one episode) maybe you shouldn't have used the name of you whole operations brief as the code name IN the operations, just saying. Sigh... you know that plot twist without any foreshadowing or logic behind them are not smart but just ass pulls? And it's not like secretaries don't get vetted and have background check done on them, just as rigorous as the people in charge...

-Be sensible

-No, I don't think so

Ok that one got a chuckle. Of freaken course, also Marry is somehow faster then a bullet?

Well Watson, don't be unreasonable, it's not like he can be twice as fast as a bullet!

Sadly the memetic mutation continuous, style over substance, pandering to bits and pieces the fandom obsesses about instead of carrying to make an actual good show.

Seems the first season was a fluke. I'm now ready for my downvotes.

[u/amirolsupersayian]

We ended 2016 already! Why must we start 2017 with such dread?!

[u/[deleted]]

Moriart - E xx

[u/blackbasset]

I DONT EVEN LIKE JOHNS NEW HAIR

[u/SufficientAnonymity]

Well, that was kinda fun in parts... but can I have Sherlock back not an action movie?

[u/PannonianNephthys]

Well... Shit.

[u/Schofers28]

Underwhelming. Writing in this episode was by far and ahead some of the worst with cheap one liners, and that lack of wit and cutting edge that the previous seasons had. What made the other seasons so great were the cutting edge themes, good writing, and that feeling of containment and clarity it had, and the fact it didn't rely on such shitty formatting; i.e Chuck you into the deep end of the plot and force you to painfully sit through the episode as they slowly and painfully unwind the plot (doesn't make for pleasant viewing). Feel like that format is completely overused, and was always glad Sherlock didn't have to rely on it. Just didn't stand out like the other episodes/ series did.

[u/CheshireFur]

I'm trying to wrap my head around what this episode was trying to achieve. I was asking myself: what did I just watch? Anyone wants to think along, please do.

Before this episode: Last season's (non-Christmas) episode ended with Moriarty. Exciting. We all want to know what happened there. Christmas Special was dedicated to the question: is Moriarti actually dead? Today I went into the next episode with those things in mind, so where are we now?

This episode:

• Sherlock has decided to wait for Moriarty.

• Watson and Mary got a fully functioning baby.

• A classic case was solved: a boy died in a car.

• Sherlock sees Moriarty's work in everything.

• Episode actually turned out to be about Mary's past coming back to haunt her.

• A pool fighting scene (which no one heard), some flashbacks (through the eyes of Mary and a old colleague if hers?), and traveling shots lead Sherlock, John, and Mary being (back) in London where the only thing that's changed is that Sherlock has now vowed to protect his friends and their child.

• Also Watson had an affair.

• Solving the case of the past betrayal of Mary leads to the character's death. Combined with the previous point this leads to Watson being very angry with Sherlock and Sherlock doubting himself.

• A post mortal Moriarty DVD turned out to be a post mortal Mary DVD.

I found it a bit of a confusing ride to be honest. This episode couldn't stand on its own. At the same time, based solely on this episode, I have no clue as to what to expect from the next one. Could this episode primarily have been created to change the setting somewhat before the actual show starts?

Let me note that Sherlock is one of my favourite series and that a confusing episode won't stop me from liking it or watching the next. :)

Edit: typo

[u/jufloara]

I don't hate Mary but I hate the direction they took her and the story in. They should have been smart and used her skills as an assassin/spy to their advantage instead of doing a stupidly rushed redemption arc and killing her off to a, in my opinion, meaningless case

[u/izzieluv]

On a lighter note... Sherlock showing the picture of Rosie to Mycroft? He's really proud of her! ♥

[u/BarbecueGod]

I knew this episode was going to be shit within the first five minutes.

S3E3 ended with Sherlock shooting a man in cold blood. It was shocking. There had to have been ramifications.

So we wait 3 years ... to have everything handwaved away with some doctored footage and a story about some policeman with an itchy trigger finger.

It's like Moffatt, as a writer, didn't realize until he began writing this episode that he ended the last episode in a cul-de-sac with no outlet. And now we have the impression that Sherlock can do anything without repercussions. What is the point of such an unrestrained character? There's no danger, no conflict.

My only hope is that after we watch the next two episodes we can look back and see that things tied together better than we had guessed. IDK how. Of course I'm still going to watch the rest of the season; I've waited too long.

[u/not_a_killjoy]

I swear in the opening monologue with the sharks I thought he was going to say 'Penguin' out of nowhere.

[u/woijst]

I'm pretty sure no one cares about this small detail, but as a swede it always takes away the magic when they use a swedish person and they can't even find a common swedish name. It is so obvious they dont know what they're doing... Greta Bengtsdotter. That type of surname is common in Iceland, not Sweden.

[u/[deleted]]

Sherlock's humbling at the end was a way to signal that we should actually be shaken with the events. The only emotional turbulence for me was anxiety due to the ever shifting sceneries and plot lines..

[u/RichestBrook]

Am I the only one who felt sorry for Molly, having to break the news about John to Sherlock? I just hope that the two get back to being friends or at least some compromise. Secondly, who the heck is that woman John was essentially flirting with? Her calling herself a 'vampire' is setting off alarm bells for me.

[u/sunscreenonface]

Fuck slowing down time and having Mary jump in front of the bullet like fucking Quicksilver.

Why couldn't the writers have extended the Six Thatcher case and have it culminate with Mary actually being evil and being pressured into putting Sherlock in danger via pressure from Moriarty (or whoever) and THEN having her be offed by the big bad or her former team agent? They obviously wanted her gone in this episode, but goddamn was it convoluted and contrived.

Edit: Formatting

[u/joemo114]

It was good but not great. There are criticisms to be had: some dodgy transitions, the stupid marrakesh section and some convoluted plotting and rushed scenes. However, I think a lot of people have been completely over the top and reactionary with their criticisms.

First of all, I don't agree that the episode focused too much on Mary. This was her farewell episode, of course she'll get screen time. Besides I personally find her to be an intriguing, well played character so it wasn't too much of an issue.

Secondly, those saying there was no mystery are ridiculous. The entire episode surrounded the mystery of one event. The failed mission in Georgia with agra and ammo. The players involved in this and the circumstances of the mission were revealed throughout the course of the episode in a way that was actually quite traditional of the mystery genre. Just because a major character is involved in said mystery, doesn't mean that there isn't one.

It seems that the sherlock fanbase is quite divided between those (like myself) who see the show as one about a detective rather than simply a detective show and those clamouring for the "good old days" where it was all about the mystery. The character focus to me seemed like a natural progression following season 2 and in my opinion the core mysteries or "cases" are still there. It's just that now those mysteries are paired with the character development and interactions

[u/TyrionBananaster]

I hate to say it, but I feel like the editing in this episode crossed the line from just being clever to the point of "trying-to-be-clever." When you have a scene with nifty editing a few times in an episode, it's fun to watch and makes me grin for a moment. But this, it just felt like every single editing choice was some attempt to be quirky and clever. It got pretty annoying.

[u/BrotherJulian]

Poor TV/movies can't really be redeemed if the pacing is off. That was the first thing I noticed about this episode after 15 minutes. S3E1 Came to us after a two year cliffhanger, and it slowly brought up the momentum as Sherlock came back. It baked Sherlock and John's relationship once more before introducing any kind of mystery to be solved. For this episode, we were pushed in with our clothes on. Normally John is the main character, he's there for the viewers to sympathize with, but here he's making odd choices that his character would never make. It reminds me of when I read Cursed Child the day it was released. Characters making odd decisions and me trying to stomach the writers' total fan fiction plot lines.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[u/Enginical_Machineer]

If mary could jump in front of Sherlock, why couldn't Sherlock jump out of the way of the bullet? He's not that slow!

[u/XenSenju]

It feels like a long time waiting for a setup episode with some questionable things set up.

Also, slow motion bullet jump.

[u/Benjiiiee]

I thought the whole Mary leaving John and the baby to protect them was a good way to make her leave and have just John and Sherlock for the rest of the season. But nope, 5 minutes later they had already found her, and she ended up dying. I gotta say I was disappointed, hope it gets better.

[u/tonyking318]

Has anyone found Sherlock's twitter account?

[u/challengereality]

Why is no one discussing confirmation of the existence of a third Holmes brother, Sherrinford??

[u/theblackpeacock]

Why didn't Watson try to save Mary. Isn't he a doctor? It would be quite funny if this was just everyone's plan to get back at Sherlock for faking his death and Mary isn't actually dead. Did I say funny? I meant annoying.

[u/Faisal_Badareen]

I think this episode will not look so bad after this season ends, i feel like this episode had a purpose, though it absolutely did not seem like it, this episode ended the Mary story line, which a lot of people didn't like, and got us back to S01&S02 just Sherlock & Watson (and Rosie). I do think that there will be a huge payoff in the 3rd episode judging by the quality of this one! I think Mary will stay dead and we'll see a lot more Moriarty, at least i hope so! Let's have some faith people!!!

[u/piper1871]

While I didn't think the episode was the best one and I really disliked the way it was shot, the details in the episode were quite good though. I also loved the sharks in the episode, that could be because I love sharks though. I think people need to stop complaining and start discussing the interesting details in the episode. There were so many things I caught that nobody is talking about. Here are my observations from the episode.

1.) I do not think John is taking to being a Dad at all. Mary was in better spirits with the baby than John was. John would rather flirt with that woman than be with his family in some ways, he did feel guilty about it though and ended it.

2.) Molly was awesome in the church when she kept nudging Sherlock trying to get him to behave. She is in a awkward position now, helping John with Rosamund and then having to give Sherlock that message.

3.) The thing Sherlock said to Greg about the women he was seeing not being the one, I wonder if that is hope for those who want him and Molly to get together and if so has Sherlock noticed it?

4.) The Black Pearl was a lot like the original story where a stone was hidden in the sculptures. The Pearl IS still missing. Will that have anything to do with Moriarty or the new villain (sorry, forgot his name).

5.) I have seen NOBODY talk about this. Sherlock had another flashback of Redbeard and there were 2 little boys (one was obviously Sherlock). Both boys looked about the same size so I am reluctant to think one was Mycroft. Also, there was another conversation between Sherlock and John about how it is never twins. Since we heard Mycroft call for Sherrinford, could Sherrinford be Sherlock's twin??!! Could he have done something to Redbeard, making Sherlock's parents have to put him down and causing Sherrinford to be sent away? Sherrinford could be the symbolistic Moriarty, I mean the seasons trailer shows Mycroft with John in Sherlock in the room Sherlock says I love you. We also saw the same beach in Sherlock's flashback that we see in the trailer where we see what looks like the back of Moriarty and some agents. Another idea is that Sherlock killed Sherrinford on the beach when they were kids because Mycroft keeps mentioning that Sherlock wanted t be a pirate. It could have been an accident and Redbeard was fattily injured, but that only works if Sherrinford is not Sherlock and Mycroft's brother.

6.) Everyone keeps saying Mary looks mad when she tells Sherlock to go to hell. I have to completely disagree, she looks serious. It is most likely part of a bigger message we will find out.

7.) The emphasis on the story told throughout the episode could be important. Are more of Sherlock's friends and/or family going to die? Molly is taking on a more important role in the show. She is hoping take care of the baby, which means her lose would hurt both Sherlock and John a lot since Sherlock sees her as a close friend. Mycroft could also be in danger of dying. Is someone going to die at the end of the next episode? If so, Sherlock's emphasis on the idea that nobody can escape death could also mean that Sherlock is going to die at the end of the season. The creators did say this was the story they have been telling from the beginning, in the first episode, like Moriarty, Sherlock was willing to possibly kill himself with the poison to try to prove himself right. Maybe a death wish like Moriarty?

8.) I took everything that happened and Mary telling Sherlock to save John as well as John's behavior as him going down a dark road this season. Sherlock is going to have to do something to knock him out of it. Maybe we are going to see a dark background on John that e do not know about.

9.) The 13th means something. A date, a year, maybe how M is the 13th number in the alphabet? Any theories?

10.) Mycroft knows something. He is behind something and he causes something really bad to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if his team could have stopped Mary from getting shot but decided not to. It could be something else, remember Mrs. Hudson is going to tell the reptile to get out of her house.

11.) Lastly, I cannot BELIEVE nobody else has mentioned this. The women John flirted with IS the redhead in the trailer wearing the glasses!!!!!! Just look at the two times she is in the different trailers. We see a side look of her face and in another trailer she is standing in the morgue with John and Sherlock when John punches Sherlock!!!!! How come NOBODY is talking about this!!!!!! Who is she? What is she doing? Is she Moriarty's prodigy or twin? Does she work for the new bad guy? Is it her purpose to drive a wedge in between John and Sherlock, thus Sherlock has to save John? Could she be child services doing a secret investigation on John and Mary seeing if they are too dangerous to be the Rosamund's parents? Are children's services going to try to take her away if that's who she is and thats why John punches Sherlock? Does Molly get the baby then? SOOOOOOO many questions that nobody is talking about!!

Please, talk away about what I wrote. I would like some other opinions.

[u/[deleted]]

Mary is to Sherlock what Dorne was to Game of Thrones.

[u/Lord_Vectron]

Oh no Mary died.

- Nobody

[u/[deleted]]

That episode was by far the worst of this show. What the hell happened? It takes them so long to make the show you'd have thought they could keep a high level of quality.

[u/Spock_42]

It had my interest at the start; Sherlock, John, and Mary working together solving a case whilst juggling the baby could have been so much fun.

Instead we get the clusterfuck of a plot we got. It feels like Mary existed solely to die and create a deep divide between Sherlock and John. She literally existed to die via convoluted, uninteresting backstory.

Just don't understand how they thought this plot was any good. My SO and I literally spent 10 minutes and came up with a more entertaining, coherent episode, as have most others I'm sure.

I hope this season picks up now that they've got the Mary nonsense sorted out.

[u/FireTails11]

What the fuck just happened? The series could of started straight off with the most interesting storyline and antagonist in the show. Moriarty. But instead the episode went through three different plots and cases just to give us more knowledge of Mary's backstory that in the end seemed pointless anyway because they killed the strongest and most interesting female character in the show. It felt like they literally only killed her off because they knew her backstory was getting too complicated. And instead of Moriarty we ended with an old secretary with a half arsed excuse for revenge as the main villain in this episode. I'm seriously upset and I'm probably going to have to watch it twice over to fully understand what just went on.

[u/Jonny-Morris]

I think this was the conversation between the producer and whoever wrote the script https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL9222AdPrE&feature=youtu.be

[u/HahaNotAgain]

One thing I've noticed, especially since the name Rosamund has been mentionned several times during the episode... the woman from the bus was wearing a rose necklace. I'm pretty sure it has no importance, but it caught my eye.

[u/Snufffeh]

Am I the only one who noticed E in the plane?

[u/Neurotic-Kitten]

I know everybody is worried about John cheating on Mary with bus stop lady, but is anybody else worried they might try to set him up with Molly? I mean, at this point with her on the middle of his and Sherlock's mess, and all the crap Moffat and Gatiss are throwing at us, I wouldn't put it pass them.

[u/carpetdied]

What did 13th mean when it was plastered on the fridge? Right before Mycroft contacted Sherrinford

[u/stooster99]

Did anyone else notice how the lady seducing Watson sent him a text saying "Miss me?" She's totally sent to hunt him down!!! That's why Mary told Sherlock to SAVE WATSON!?!?

[u/wcorissa]

I feel like John didn't try hard at all to save his wife. Maybe he let her die. Also how does Sherlock miss all of John's texting to that lady. I feel like Mary and Sherlock have been missing out on something weird with John. They both are so perceptive and yet they someone aren't noticing John's odd behavior.

[u/mysteriouslypurple]

That was one of the worst death scenes I have ever seen. It took Mary forever to die and in that time no one did anything to help her, no medical team was called/arrived, and she was able to apologize for everything wrong she ever did and make a speech and a few dying wishes. That was just atrocious.

On a more positive note: woo! Sherlock is back! Yay! It wasn't perfect but seeing Benedict be Sherlock for the first time in so long already made my new year spectacular.

[u/kinkosmyers]

Did anyone else feel like the miss me on the DVD felt like a big fuck you from the writers? Like do something with it or drop it. Gahhh.

[u/grapp]

I kind of feel like the kid in the car just randomly dying at the exact right moment was a bit of a cop out. 19 year olds don't just die for no reason

[u/AetosDios]

In S02E02 (The Hounds of Baskerville) Sherlock guessed Major Barrymore's computer password as "Maggie" by observing Barrymore's obsession with Churchill and Thatcher. Sherlock knows Thatcher.

[u/spla-shen]

I don't think the person John was texting in bed was the bus lady. It doesn't make sense for them to be saying "miss you" and "it's been a long time" after they just met. After all, the episode DID start off with them manipulating film footage and such to interpret a different story to the viewers. John is loyal, it doesn't make sense for his character to do that. I'd like to think this was misdirection and he was texting his sister Harry. That interaction makes sense.

Also at the people saying Mary was stupid sacrificing herself for Sherlock... Mary probably knew she was going to die soon. Dead woman walking. Just like Emilia Ricoletti, she made her death at least count for something.

[u/L8141]

why does Mycroft live in a weird shitty flat with bay tiled walls now? and why does his whole office look like a storage crate

[u/Sonawayne]

WTF WTF JUST HAPPENED...THREE YEARS FOR THIS

[u/[deleted]]

This episode needed to SLOW. DOWN. So many flashy transitions, trying too hard to have witty dialogue and one-liners, sporadic plot lines, and Sherlock being too jumpy and arrogant.

"Are you high?" - Mycroft.

Hopefully. Would explain him and the writers a lot more.

[u/Zuzublue]

You got me monologuing you dog!!

Seriously, both Mary's partner from AGRA and the little old lady at the end (cannot remember either's name) both went on the typical "clear up the plot points" monologue. It felt cheap. Isn't Sherlock the one who is supposed to do that in his wonderful smarmy way?

[u/_bunny_]

The whole of episode one seemed off... and it's really hard to tell what's real and what's not. A lot of the scenes/ lines that were repeated were altered on purpose... and most of them involved John and Mary.

e.g. Bus scene - the man getting on the bus held newspaper differently first and second time round.

Mary actually said different lines when she got out of bed to look at Rosie.

Mary said "when I'm gone, if I'm gone" with different tones in the video message pre and post Sherlock/ Molly scene.

It's all super confusing, but hopefully all will be revealed in ep 2 and 3.

[u/MS1947]

At the root of all my problems with this episode is the fundamental idea that Sherlock liked Mary, made excuses for her after she shot him. I never bought that he convinced himself of her worthiness because he wanted John to continue being happy with her. If anything is proof that Sherlock is just a tiny bit insane, that's it.

[u/HiuGregg]

Man if the rest of the season is this shit, I vote we do an /r/arrow and watch that Taboo series that was advertised at the end there, it looked class.

[u/PowerPlatypus]

Sherlock Holmes and the Mystery of Why We Are Still Watching This Show

[u/ManicWolf]

I enjoyed the first 30 minutes, when Sherlock was actually solving a mystery... and then it all went to shit with the needless and boring Mary plotline. I was thinking of giving up on it by the 1 hour mark. The only enjoyment I got by watching to the end was seeing Mary die (please stay dead). I really, really hope that now she's gone it might get back to how the show used to be.

[u/[deleted]]

Was Mary behind the moriarty screen hack in s3 ep 3 then?

[u/Teskje]

I liked this episode generally, it satisfied my Sherlock thirst. I feel like the ending let it down.

[u/Arwenti]

Most doctors, even when in a close relationship with the gunshot victim - try to do something about it!

Saw AJ lift up a bust of Maggie Thatcher with a huge hole at the bottom - not exactly hidden? As soon as you pick that bust up, look what's still on the table!

Mary's giving Sherlock a case and it's to save John (small on detail) but he has to go a personal hell to do it. That's my interpretation of "Go to hell Sherlock". I assume this will be the psychiatric hospital whatchamacallit where Sherringford is incarcerated.

[u/[deleted]]

Heartbroken... cannot say much else.

[u/lastine]

I feel like the episode really suffered from Mary as a character not being all that engaging, especially compared to the rest of the cast. All the parts on her background felt very slow and uninteresting. I can see what they were trying to do with the references to the Appointment in Samara, but pointing out the inevitability of Mary's fate didn't help make the path to get there any more compelling. While I wanted to like Mary, and had some understanding for her actions in HLV, putting more spotlight on her made it more apparent how cliched her character was. I do have hope that the last two episodes will be better, and that this episode was laying the foundations by doing what had to be done (getting rid of Mary).

As for the rest of the episode, I quite enjoyed the beginning comedic beats, and I thought the Holmes brothers' interactions were by far the best parts. Some of the deductions were quite clever, but the hyperactive directing detracted from it somewhat. Also, the acting at times felt very off and over the top (the constipated crying being awkward to the extreme, as well as the death scene in general). Overall, I'm disappointed in the writers' execution of Mary's canonical death (and her character in general), but I have hopes that the show will get back to a higher quality. Lastly, I wish the baby had died along with Mary, as horrible as that may be.

[u/thegenderassumer]

I actually only finished watching season 3 of Sherlock yesterday on netflix and was really excited that I only had to wait a day for a new episode, unfortunately it didn't even feel like the same show. John especially was so out of character when he was flirting with that woman and texting her and at first I was hoping there would be another reason behind it but it didn't seem like it and then the entire episode being focused on Mary and her backstory? Whyyy??? Feel sorry for people who have waited 3 years for this tbh. Hoping the next episodes will redeem it

[u/HorzodCeales]

Utter twaddle.

It tried to be complex and emotionally compelling. It succeeded in only being dull, convoluted and in no way engaging. The brief missing boy mystery was the only entertaining part of the episode.

What's even more of a shame is that the story line promises to drag on into the next two episodes... Let's hope at least one of these has a remotely plausible and engaging mystery. Despite the heights Sherlock has reached in the past, I won't be holding my breath after that tosh.

[u/slap_me_thrice]

It really bugged me that it was filmed at a high frame rate.

Felt like I was watching a soap!

Previous episodes felt much more cinematic.

[u/alixsyd]

Why is no one talking about that extra scene after the credits where Mary tells Sherlock to go to hell on tape? What was that about?

[u/livingwithghosts]

A) I think this episode set up a lot of threads for the rest of the series. People who weren't feeling it during this airing will likely look back and think as a whole it fit well.

B) I'm totally on board with Mary dying, and while I didn't really need to see more of her story I'm glad they decided to flesh out the circumstances surrounding her death. This is the type of situation that would be done a disservice by a simple "oh no she's dead" and moving on.

C) John's affair. I think it's going to be tied to something bigger in this series but it was also get interesting to see a realistic affair start on a TV show. Even if it was only talking, emotional affairs are a thing.