TNG, Episode 4x4, Suddenly Human - r/StarTrekViewingParty

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u/ItsMeTK Sep 01 '15

Hey look, it's Chad Allen! This was before Dr. Quinn. Fun fact: he was also once on a kid's game show called I'm Telling!

The really smart thing this episode does is it makes us think it's going to be all about child abuse, and then takes a left turn. Even the promo sets it up that way, but it was all a misdirection. Instead, it was a wonderful character study examining where our own prejudices in wanting to help end up harming people. I love anytime a story can take "We've got to DO something!" people down a peg. Just a little, I mean. Like the kind of people who smash someone's car because there's a dog in there. Here we have a kind of misunderstanding where the entire Enterprise just assumes Jono had been kidnapped and was a prisoner or at the very least was suffering some kind of Stockholm Syndrome. It's great that in the end Roddenberry's enlightened humans have to go, "We messed up."

Any story that has Picard awkwardly trying to deal with young people is good. His scenes with Jono remind me of Kirk and Charlie Evans. Chad Allen puts in a great performance. There are also moments that work in the sci-fi context but also on a level we can understand. Like Jono making the banar in his room or his music. Most adults can relate to a "turn down that noise" moment.

It's very interesting to me to compare this episode with "The Gift" (VOY). There, Seven is basically forced to remain human.

This was the first episode I noticed the new "chunky" Enterprise model. I think it actually debuted earlier.

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u/CoconutDust Sep 26 '24

I love anytime a story can take "We've got to DO something!" people down a peg
That’s a strange response to a child abduction after the parents are killed, he’s lied to about his name and identity (like a trafficking victim), has PTSD, and has been withheld from human socialization, his surrogate father tells him a savior narrative, and the child then abandoned unilaterally despite being a Federation citizen and abduction victim and a child held by a species with no thought or concern about how to care for a traumatized human. His father also threatened to kill him.
But apparently that’s all OK, because, if someone were to point out any issue there then that person is “annoying” to you?
Discussion of all the egregious problems of this episode.
assumes Jono had been kidnapped
You’re saying a child kidnapped after his parents are killed, by a stranger, who then has his identity, culture, name, family connection, erased, is not kidnapping? Is a child kidnapping OK just because years have passed, and he’s been lied to and doesn’t realize it? It’s interesting how “Those Annoying Samaritans!” ideology will blind a person to all his.
(That user account is now suspended, which is not surprising at all given the personalty evidence in the comment.)

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u/Polistes_carolina Oct 07 '24

I hate that people have downvoted you because you're right.
I also hate this episode because it's such a clusterfuck. It's like the writers wanted to create a human character that's actually assimilated into an alien society, but accidentally wrote a character with one of the clearest cases of PTSD/C-PTSD I've seen on TV instead. Then they completely screw up the rest of the episode because they understand fuck-all about the topics they're writing about.
The writers might be given a pass because being trauma-informed wasn't a big deal in the 90's, but the episode doesn't hold up today.
I'd really like to see it on more "worst of" lists specifically because it understands and handles it's topics so poorly.

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u/CoconutDust Nov 24 '24

I’m glad to see this comment. The comments on Daystrom subreddit (link above) were mostly rationalizing the episode, it was really bad.

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u/Illustrious-Clerk-84 Nov 12 '24

I’m glad to see someone is talking about this (relatively) recently. I was speechless, the ending to this episode was just completely insane in my eyes. Ignoring the fact he was only 14 years old, the “father” murdered his real parents, then kidnapped him, and turned him into something else. I find it genuinely disgusting, & thus unbelievable that the crew of The Enterprise, Starfleet, or the federation, or any human tbh would say “well, it’s been many years so we’ll just let the kidnapper who was happy to kill him keep him”… I can’t imagine his grandmother, the admiral taking this news lightly.
Yet most people seem to miss this issue entirely and just say the true horror, or “crime” as Picard calls it, is their prejudice, or a clash of cultures. Others say it’s about how intervening in other cultures can go wrong, completely forgetting the whole stolen child, murdered parents thing… Well it isn’t any of this, it’s a story about a kidnapping, & the federation flagship supporting and accepting this practice, separating a stolen child from their true family, and heritage forever.
Perhaps we should let those who kidnap babies from the hospital keep them if they’ve had them long enough, changed their identity, made a few good memories, and have a loud voice. Or if a 14 year old is too scared of change. To hell with citizenship, obligations, and just general human rights & decency.
Anyway, rant over… But this episode really upset me, well p*ssed me off. Worthy of a court marshal.

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u/CoconutDust Nov 24 '24

It‘s really bad: literally child trafficking, forced assimilation, abduction, war crimes (CIVILIAN parents killed), abducted child is “spoils of war”, illegal adoption. Yet many supposed fans of the show rationalize and defend the terribleness. Comprehensive discussion with many reference links.

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u/Illustrious-Clerk-84 Nov 24 '24

TL;DR - I think I’ve gone on a rant, sorry!
I just read that, well read as much as I could in the last five minutes or so, and it’s upsetting… I’m not sure why people can’t see it, maybe they simply don’t want to… and the downvoting on your well written, well thought out, well argued points is just ridiculous. There’s no universe where I can justify the decision to return him to his kidnapper. It’s like those kids who are abducted as babies, love their kidnappers as parents and have no knowledge of their true history. We don’t just say “oh well, they’re 14 now and don’t know their original parents. All is forgiven, go live happily ever after with your kidnappers” or kowtow if they threaten to slap you, since as you correctly stated their military power was errr, “limited”…
In our universe the kidnappers would face charges, and there would be no question of the kidnapped child returning to the kidnapper(s). They might not immediately go back to their biological family but they definitely wouldn’t be returned to their kidnappers.
It’s an abduction plain and simple and it’s the decision I disagree with the most out of any decision the crew of the enterprise has ever made. Janeway wouldn’t have made such a decision, and didn’t.
I’m ranting, and I know it’s a TV show but people’s reactions to it are real and that’s quite sad and extremely frustrating.

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u/GlossedAddict Dec 23 '25

Obviously I am very late to this discussion, but I have just watched the episode and I disagree with this chain of comments because:
Jono is recognized as an adult by the culture he has assimilated into. He is also informed of both his heritage and what the Talarians did to him and his family. Humans would not force an adult to live with one party or the other, they would get to choose-- and if we make the age by human society an issue he is clearly capable enough to argue for emancipation/being legally recognized as an adult by human standards too.
Talarian society allows for adopting the children of a defeated foe. Picard and company have no compulsion to automatically accept that, but they do consider that fact, and they have allowed for far more egregious customs when working with Klingons for example.
I find it difficult to position Jono being adopted by the Talarian captain as "kidnapping". His parents died in a military struggle, and he would have died without Talarian assistance.

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u/noirnws Jan 22 '23

Really?

Not a single conversation with Worf?

Booo!

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u/peripheralpill Jul 04 '23

seriously! it seemed such an obvious parallel

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u/CoconutDust Sep 27 '24

It’s much worse than that.

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u/GeorgeAmberson Showrunner Sep 02 '15

I will say it's more of an interesting concept than an episode that actually grabbed my interest. I actually didn't get a good chance to watch it until last night. It's a cool cultural clash delimma here and a genuinely moral ambiguous situation. Unlike "Justice" where "We're beaming the kid out deal with it." seems like the right answer, it's not clear at all here.

I think Picard definitely made the right decision, and hope he got starfleet's backing on it. It's pretty sad for Admiral Rosa's family but Jerimiah has lived with Endar his entire life. He's fully assimilated to the culture and enacting an "act of justice" to return him to his former family would be cruel to him, and quite likely dangers to others. The Talarian culture is far too removed from the human one, and far too strong. He's a proud Talarian as far as he and his culture are concerned, so he must be allowed to live his life. If he was 5 years old the argument would be different, but he's fourteen and an adult in his culture to make his own choices.

Attempting to murder Picard fully knowing it should cost him his life perfectly illustrates this. The very thought of embracing his humanity made him not only homicidal, but suicidal. That is one strong culture that just doesn't jive with human culture.

While this is good Star Trek and I respect it as a good episode, I just didn't find it exceptionally interesting. Can't put my finger on why, but it's not quite my cup of tea. I'll say it's a 6.5 for me because while I didn't enjoy watching it very much I respect the statement it makes.

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u/SeekingTheRoad Mar 15 '24

I struggle to see how this is different than the current tragedy of Ukrainian children being kidnapped by Russia and stolen away. Even if they end up in the care of Russian families it’s still kidnapping and evil.

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u/Kinetic_Symphony May 23 '24

Exactly. I'm conflicted. Clearly Jerimiah had assimilated to the Talarian culture and way of life, but his "father" there is responsible for murdering his birth parents, among countless other humans.
Okay, he didn't physically abuse him, but he still kidnapped a child.
This is borderline Stockholm Syndrome.

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u/Polistes_carolina Oct 07 '24

I was thinking that Jeremiah hasn't actually assimilated to Talarian culture, instead he has PTSD/C-PTSD and his embrace of Talarian culture is a fawn response (which I don't think was understood at the time this episode was written). He's not consciously aware of it, but his displays of Talarian culture win him the approval of his Talarian "father" which ensures his safety. He's in survival mode and this is a maladaptive coping strategy. He's assuming a role instead of being allowed to forge his own identity, and he will never get the support he actually needs in Talarian culture.

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u/ZeForgottenPenguinxd Oct 09 '25

Thank you for this amazingly written response. I just started watching Star Trek and reading more about potential psychological responses such as your 'fawn' one by using Talarian culture was very cool to see.
Onto the next :)

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u/thedoorlord Sep 23 '26

He pushed so hard for his father’s approval that he injured himself badly several times. It seems like he was so scared of being cast out of his new home that he was ready to risk his life as the alternative was fending for himself on an alien planet.

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u/InternationalFrend Jun 27 '25

But in 14 years, would it be right to take away this child from his home, the people he knows as his family and put him into a new enviroment, just because it feels like the „right“ thing?

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u/CoconutDust Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24

ambiguous
did the right thing
Not on more careful examination. The episode is a horrendous wreck of ignorance and failures on all sides.
Attempting to murder Picard [as a form of suicide]. The very thought of embracing his humanity made him not only homicidal, but suicidal. That is one strong culture that just doesn't jive with human culture.
A child attempting murder and suicide doesn’t mean “strong culture”, and isn’t a “culture” issue but in fact a child psych/health issue. Severe maladjustment, and he does it because of guilt over an imagined “betrayal”…simply because he felt good around humans (in Ten Forward) but has disturbing dependency issues created by Talarian negligence. He didn’t feel fear, he didn’t feel hopeless, he was fine in Ten Forward: guilt is a very different thing and a huge red flag. (Meanwhile the “dilemma” could obviously be addressed by offerings of family-bonding and dual-citizenship, it was absurdly nonsensical for the episode to pose a “Only Them, or Only Us, RIGHT NOW…permanently and forever!”)
Meanwhile he has untreated PTSD. Not only untreated, but nobody has any plans to treat it. Since he has been lied to about his name, identity, culture, origins, right to his family, like a trafficking victim. It’s a child abduction that is depicted as “OK” because “well…it’s been a long time now”. And to top it all off: it was not a long time, he’s only 14 and had already known his nice human parents for years beforehand. Before they, as civilians, were killed in an apparent war-crime to boot.

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u/lethalcheesecake Sep 03 '15

My attempt to keep a running count of abductions and shuttlejackings is off to a wonderful start as I miss the first three episodes. Well then. I'll go rewatch them when I have time, but till then, we're at zero for both.

Thoughts:

Picard is so formal, with the "Please, may I have your attention!" to a bunch of teenagers. Obviously he has no memories of high school assemblies. Being stern and yelling works so much better. Everyone respects shouty Picard.
The fear in Picard's eyes as they tell him he needs to bond with "Jeremiah". His awkwardness around children is a recurring theme in this series, but you can see him gradually getting more and more comfortable with them each time he is forced to interact with them.
Kids and their rock music.
An awkward commentary on adoptive vs. birth parents. I can't help but wonder how much of Picard's insistance on Jono going back to his grandparents is because he was adopted by recent enemies. Interspecies adoptions of war orphans aren't exactly unheard of - Worf himself is an example of one.
Chekov's Klingon dagger. Hee hee.

I didn't care one bit about Jono or his predicament. There are very few child actors on TNG I liked, which I'm sure is part of it, but this also felt like another episode where the concept was more interesting than the execution.

The Picard parts of the episode, on the other hand, were very well done. Picard as a lonely, driven boy, a child who never really was a child, rings very true to the character. He's never really comfortable letting other people in, is he? Really, his character arc throughout the series is learning to relax and let people in, and this episode gives background and explanation for that.

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u/CoconutDust Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24

Interspecies adoptions of war orphans aren't exactly unheard of - Worf himself is an example of one.
If we look at the difference between Suddenly Human and Worf’s foster parents the Rozhenkos, it becomes extremely disturbing, though many people haven’t noticed:
Jeremiah’s abductors abducted him. Deliberately did not contact rightful people. That’s a crime.
The Rozhenkos adopted Worf. That’s not the same.
Jeremiah’s abductors are the killer of his parents. That’s a war-crime against civilians(?), aside from the abduction.
Worf’s were just nice people who were available to be true normal caretakers/guardians.
Jeremiah’s abductors changed his name, withheld human socialization, withheld his culture, deprived him of rightful actual family connection, lie to him about who is is/was. These are crimes.
Worf’s adopters did NOTHING like that
Jeremiah’s abductor threatens to kill him. (A lot of people miss that).
Worf’s adopted parents: didn’t.
Jeremiah’s abductors did it with all the details of child-trafficking during war-time, for the purpose of filling the space/gap of the Talarian’s deceased child. Aka, trafficking / illegal adoption crime, kidnapping with intent to “raise as own.”
The Rozhenkos simply became foster guardians, without crimes against humanity.
Jeremiah’s abductors don’t understand his PTSD or have any plan or care to treat that, or to properly provide or address any other human needs or conditions.
The Rozhenkos, we know, would never be such a terrible parental failure like that.
The episode is egregiously bad and wrong in many, many ways.
It’s true that the Picard avoidance-comedy (“Oh no counselor…oh no counselor…”), especially dialog toward Troi, is wonderfully hilarious, though,

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '15

An episode that sets the stage and then isn't interested in the problems that it has created.

The ethics of whether or not to return Jono is barely examined. Instead, the crew make a lot of assumptions about very normal injuries and Jono has a few freak outs and then they send him back. The set up here is much more disturbing than the episode seems to think it is, and it seems to think that the interesting thing is about Jono making a decision.

Wesley getting creamed in the fact is a highlight, however.

2/5

YouTube

The Blog

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u/CoconutDust Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24

The episode has egregiously horrendously bad problems that go unnoticed by the crew/writers and by many viewers.

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u/librislulu Jul 07 '26

Anyone who thinks this episode has the "right ending" needs to check out the opinions of adults who were adopted transracially. When I watched this ep when it first aired, my main thought was, um, that's not how international/interplanetary law works, Picard. Wjp's gonna tell an ADMIRAL that they just let her only living heir be handed back to the people who killed her son? Nah.

Rewatching it decades later, it's seriously f'ed up if you know anything about adoption:

hiding the boy's true origins from him. Rationalizing the fact that his parents and others were killed. Yes it's war, but they weren't soldiers.
taking the boy in the first place ( the adoptive father admits that the adopted child was to be a replacement for his son who died- ask any adoptee who was adopted because the adoptive parents couldn't have a baby and asked em how that went.)
the tilarian who adopted him could have offered the baby back to the Federation, in the same way that prisoners of war are often exchanged even among warring enemies. he didn't do this, not because there was no way to do it, he i adopted him because he simply wanted him and felt he deserved to take a stranger's baby because his son had been lost. (see #2). So the child is essentially some war prize? That's fatherly love?hm.
the kids got obvious ptsd and has awakened memories. the tilerians won't know how to deal with it. it will get stuffed inside until inevitably explodes out.
not allowing the boy to explore both sides of his identity, and both his cultures. both sides are f'ed up here. he isn't allowed to love parts of the Talarian culture that he was raised in AND explore his birth culture. There are many, many stories of black kids adopted into white families who then spent their entire childhoods in mostly white atmospheres that tell us that making a kid choose one or the other is horrible no matter what the justifications.
no matter how hard he tries, he'll never be fully Talarian.He's a different species. The episode acts as if he's found true belonging among them, but if he's a visual reminder of a hated tilerian enemy (starfleet/humans), it's not going to end well.

I know, I know, it's just a show made 30 years ago, not very much was known about adoption trauma back then. Some Star Trek TNG episodes don't age well (Angel One, cough, cough). And this app is definitely more like a case of Ripple or Thunderbird that's been sitting in a garage than a finely aged wine.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '15

[deleted]

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u/titty_boobs Moderator Sep 01 '15 edited Sep 02 '15

Space racquetball was alright. I always like seeing sports in Trek. I'm really curious why team sports seem to have disappeared though. Any sport you see always seems to be some kind of one on one thing. Like fencing, or that space karate Bill Riker did with his dad.
Just weird that something relatively new like darts (100 years old) will last for the next 300 years but soccer, which has been played since the medieval period, totally disappears. And Sisko seems to be unique in still playing baseball.

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u/ItsMeTK Sep 02 '15

Paresee squares (however it's spelled) is a team sport. So of course we never see it onscreen.

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u/GeorgeAmberson Showrunner Sep 02 '15

Huh, TIL. I assumed darts were ancient. I'm on a dart team and everything.
It seems like the writers of Trek have an unusual attachment to baseball. Can't blame them, like it myself even if I don't really sports.

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u/titty_boobs Moderator Sep 02 '15

There have been ancient "dart like" games. Like 'who can throw a knife or axe closest to the center of a target'. But an actual game throwing small darts onto a target with a codified set of rules and scoring with an objective wasn't invented until the late 19th century.

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u/Mad-Lad-of-RVA Mar 09 '23

I know that this is a seven-year-old comment, but I read your post as I have been marathoning The Next Generation and reading old Reddit discussions of the episodes.
I am now a few episodes down the line in my viewing, and I want to point out that in "The Host," Dr. Crusher mentions that her first crush, Stefan, was a soccer player.
So it would seem that soccer, at least, has survived off-screen in the Star Trek universe.

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u/zenerbufen Oct 12 '15

What I thought hilarious was that baseball didn't survive into the future except Sisko and the Vulcan crew who got into it just to prove themselves superior to humans & their captain better than Sisko. They seemed to imply 'the great American pastime' didn't even survive in America.

Discussion TNG, Episode 4x4, Suddenly Human

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