r/Sherlock • u/GoFlight • Jan 12 '14
Discussion His Last Vow: Post-Episode Discussion (SPOILERS)
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Jan 13 '14 edited Jan 14 '14
Here's what I'm hoping for next season:
Before Moriarty killed himself (he's actually dead) he set up a series of mysteries for Sherlock to solve. There are severe consequences to Sherlock not solving said cases. We see the Moriarty that was chained up exit the padded cell in his snazzy suit. He climbs the stairs of Sherlock's mind palace, where he is now free to roam. This is how we get More Sherlock/Moriarty conversations. Every step of the way Sherlock imagines Moriarty in the room with him taunting him.
Notice he said "Miss me?" and not "Did you miss me?"
Edit: I done goofed on the "miss me ?". Apparently he said "did you miss me?" first.
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u/TheAtkinsoj Jan 12 '14
I can't find any of Mrs. Hudson's exotic dancing on YouTube. Such bullshit…
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u/idonotownakindle Jan 12 '14
"we don't have to prove it, we just have to print it!" the Daily Mail's beloved motto
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u/Rooster89 Jan 12 '14
The whole Magnussen media 'overlord' story made me laugh. Nice little nod to Murdoch there!
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u/SystemOfAClown Jan 13 '14
Am I the only one who thinks that Sherlock just did this to get recalled back to England? We've seen him text everyone simultaneously. Why not TV?
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Jan 12 '14 edited Jan 12 '14
Theories
Sherlock is responsible for the "Moriarty Cast" so he can stay with John. Moriarty is still dead.
Sebastian Moran is behind the "Moriarty Cast" and will be the big bad for season 4 and the new "Moriarty".
The Government did this to justify keeping Sherlock in the country.
Moriarty is back and simply faked his death and lumberjacked for 2 years.
Mary is responsible for the "Moriarty cast" as is doing it to repay Sherlock.
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Jan 12 '14
I would be happy with any number of these. Also +1 for 'lumberjacked'
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u/LikeXClockwork Jan 12 '14
That number 4 man, never again we don't want another 4
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u/handym12 Jan 13 '14
6. Mycroft is responsible for the "Moriarty Cast" and is doing it to prevent Sherlock from getting in trouble.
He has prevented Sherlock from going to prison before, not necessarily because they're close family members.
If you listen to the scene when Mycroft and the police storm Appledore, the radio chatter says "Target is unarmed".
If there were two targets (Sherlock and Watson), surely they would said "Targets are unarmed." This leads me to believe that Mycroft had intended to take Magnusson out upon discovering that there were no vaults. Sherlock beat him to it and did commit treason and therefore had to be punished. There was nothing he could do about that. If there was a reason that the punishment had to end early, for example if a particular criminal appeared, then Sherlock would have to be brought back to deal with it.
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u/Upjoater2 Jan 12 '14
Good start.
There'll be thousands more by the time we actually get to see.
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u/Sandorawr Jan 12 '14
Everyone is going on about Moriarty...
But how good would it have felt when Molly slapped Sherlock? She seems to have really grown as a character.
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u/varunpramanik Jan 13 '14
One of my favorite parts. Molly is no longer being a rug for people to walk all over.
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Jan 12 '14
"He is the most dangerous man you'll ever meet, and the odds of us succeeding are stacked heavily against us."
"But it's Christmas!"
"My thoughts exactly! Oh.. you mean it's actually christmas.."
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u/DeadeyeDuncan Jan 12 '14
Anyone else think it isn't Moriarty? Just some other supercriminal using his image to get Sherlock's attention?
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u/Benjji22212 Jan 12 '14
Or else part of some plan that Moriarty left after his death for others to carry out? I don't think there's enough to evidence to say he's definitely alive.
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u/eifos Jan 13 '14
I'm entirely convinced it's not the same Moriarty as in season 1/2. Either it's Jim Moriarty's brother (which is canon), or the missing Holmes brother, I reckon. Why bring up this never-before-mentioned other sibling if it's not important? Hmm...
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Jan 12 '14
awesome, martin freeman deserves all the baftas
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u/baskandpurr Jan 13 '14
The scene in Lenister Gardens was the most powerful acting in the episode and he didn't say anything.
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u/always_reading Jan 13 '14
Martin Freeman is an amazing actor but he truly shines in highly emotional scenes. His facial expressions, his body language, and the way he delivers his lines portray real emotion in a way I've rarely seen from any other actor. Here are two of my favourite John Watson scenes:
I would add a video clip of the scene when he confronts Mary and Sherlock after he learns the truth to this list.
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u/happycatface Jan 12 '14
Moriarty's ringtone was Stayin' Alive.
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u/BlueWingedAssassin Jan 12 '14
Moffat said that we all missed something... is that it?
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u/Mediocre-raptor Jan 12 '14
The second I heard Mycroft say "the other one", I could picture the thousands of fan theories...
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u/OldClockMan Jan 12 '14
Gatiss and Moffat are such fanboys; I wouldn't put it past them for that to be a Sherrinford Holmes reference.
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u/inherentinsignia Jan 12 '14
Suddenly goth-girl from the empty hearse club's explanation shoots to the top of the probability pool.
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u/d0mth0ma5 Jan 12 '14
Does nobody fucking die anymore?!
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Jan 12 '14
Good damn question. This is breaking my suspension of disbelief a bit. It's just Moffat, isn't it? Killing people and bringing them back is what he's all about.
Anyways, time to theorize about how Jim survived. My theory: teselecta
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u/Xeno87 Jan 12 '14
Yeah Magnussen, absolutely smartass, knowing everything.
AND YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING?
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Jan 12 '14
His security certainly weren't smart enough to check them for weapons the second time around.
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u/fenwaygnome Jan 12 '14
The entire time I was like "Why doesn't someone just shoot the son of a bitch? He's no Moriarty."
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Jan 12 '14
I though when Sherlock said "so the vault is in your mind" when Mycroft showed up, that that would be the signal for a sniper to take Magnussen out. Ffs Mycroft could've ended this ages ago himself
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u/Thetical Jan 12 '14
Mary could have finished it all if Sherlock wouldn't have interfered.
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u/foiled_yet_again Jan 12 '14
Oh for fuck's sake; there is something wrong with the telly?
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u/notthe9oclock Jan 12 '14 edited Jan 12 '14
1 minute 10 seconds in: "I have an excellent memory..." — Oh, Moffat. Can't resist, can you?
Magnussen's Excellent Memory Recalled The Following:
John Garvie
MP Rockwell South
Adulterer (see file)
Reformed alcoholic
Porn preference: Normal
Finances: 41% Debt (see file)
Status: Unimportant
Pressure point: Disabled daughter (see file)
Lady Elizabeth Smallwood
Married
Solvent
Former Gymnast
Porn preference: None
Vices: None
Pressure point: Husband
John Hamish Watson
Afghanistan Veteran (see file)
G.P. (See File)
Porn preference: Normal
Finances: 10% Debt (see file)
Status: Unimportant
Pressure point: Harry Watson (Sister) Alcoholic / Mary Morstan (Wife)
Sherlock Holmes
Consulting Detective
Porn preference: Normal
Finances: Unknown
Brother: Mycroft Holmes, MI6 (see file)
Officially deceased: 2011-2013
Pressure point: John Watson / Irene Adler (see file) / Jim Moriarty (see file) / Redbeard (see file) / Hounds of the Baskerville / Opium
Edit: Oops, missed out Mrs Hudson:
Martha Louise Hudson (née Sissons)
Landlady
Widow (see file)
Semi-reformed alcoholic
Former "Exotic Dancer" (see file)
Finances: 21% Debt (see file)
Status: Unimportant
Pressure point: Marijuana
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u/bettysready Jan 13 '14
was anyone else disappointed that no one had anything other than "none" or "normal" for porn preferences??
Glad we learned more about Hudders though
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Jan 13 '14
All the men have normal porn preferences and the women have none. You writers missed some comedy gold with that one.
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Jan 13 '14
In A Study in Pink, during the drug bust, Mrs. Hudson states that she uses "herbal soothers". So the marijuana thing isn't that much of a surprise. :)
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u/neffered Jan 12 '14
CAM is the creepiest villain I've seen in a long long time. He makes my skin crawl! The licking. Ugh.
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u/buttercup_ Jan 12 '14 edited Jan 12 '14
I really wondered how they could come up with a villain that outcreeped Andrew Scott as Moriarty, but Magnussen totally succeeded. He was just so blatantly cruel, and his mannerisms were disgusting. Comparatively, Jim seems like the playful, funny kind of nemesis.
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Jan 12 '14
Oh it did make it for me, completely.
The bit in the restaurant where he dips his fingers in the water?
Grooooooooooooooooss
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u/OrigamiLifeboat Jan 13 '14
The trend of revealing that characters were genius sociopath's all along leads me to conclude that the main villain of season 5 of Sherlock will in fact be Watson.
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u/Parsel_Tongue Jan 13 '14
Didn't it look that for a moment at the end of season 1 when Watson first appeared at the pool?
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u/sylux024 Jan 12 '14
I feel sorry for Lestrade. All alone in the pub. Does he have friends?
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u/Eldi13 Jan 14 '14
That's how he was at the wedding, too. :( Alone hunched over the table sipping his drink.
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u/bacon_cake Jan 12 '14 edited Jan 13 '14
That internal monologue after the gunshot was fantastic.
One of the greatest pieces of television in a long time.
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u/William_de_Worde Jan 13 '14
I adored the canonical references in this episode: Holmes undercover in a crack den; a spoof engagement to gain access to Magnussen; the blackmailer held at gunpoint by his victim; the throwaway reference to the country house with its beehives; but especially the wind coming from the east. I was in nerdy heaven.
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u/muffintumble Jan 12 '14
I do hope Mrs. Hudson replaced the wood in Sherlock's fireplace.
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u/93rdBen Jan 12 '14
Did you miss me? Yes, yes we did.
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u/All_Witty_Taken Jan 12 '14
Just when we give up trying to solve Sherlocks death! They throw Moriaty in!
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u/shamjam96 Jan 12 '14
I wonder will they use #MoriartyLives for the next season. I hope we get a definite answer to how Moriarty lives.
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u/Naggers123 Jan 12 '14
I'm calling it now - The new Moriarty is Mycroft and Sherlock's long lost brother
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Jan 12 '14
There was a third Holmes brother?!?
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Jan 12 '14
Sherrinford.
He was an early draft of his brother that is never mentioned in the stories directly. Because his family owned land, someone had to stay and look after it and that wouldn't of allowed Mycroft interactions. So there IS a hypothetical brother that should exist.
Sir ACD mentioned him a few times.
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Jan 12 '14
Anyone else hopefull that we'll get to see more of Billy Wiggins next series?
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u/Athaene Jan 13 '14
I would love to see more of his deductions. When he was commenting on John's shirt and exclaims that he has further to deduce was hilarious. You could just see Sherlock begging for him to quit while he was ahead.
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u/stormahawk Jan 12 '14
So, if Moriarty is alive, this is the only explanation of how he and Sherlock both survived!
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u/mehster432 Jan 13 '14
I like how it's definitely Sherlock who initiates that kiss.
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Jan 13 '14
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
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u/wOlfLisK Jan 12 '14
Moffat said that Moriarty was 100% dead. So I think from here on we should assume that everything that comes out that man's mouth is a lie.
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u/Irockz Jan 12 '14
From here on? You should've been assuming that three seasons of doctor who ago.
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u/Glychd Jan 12 '14
We don't even know that it is actually Moriarty for sure yet. Anything could happen. The image shown on the television screens was a still frame, it could be someone using Moriartys image to tempt Sherlock, or any other kind of scheme.
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u/Heavens_Vibe Jan 12 '14
MoriartyLives
Now begins the 2 year wait on how Moriarty did it...Brace yourselves fanboys and girls, we've gotta ride out the eastern wind...
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u/Zircon88 Jan 12 '14
AGRA is a reference to the six pearls Mary Watson (nee Morstan) receives from what's left of her treasure, her inheritance, so to speak. [Sign of Four, ACD]
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u/tobywaxman Jan 12 '14 edited Jan 13 '14
Day 1: it's been 5 minutes without Sherlock and I'm already losing my mind.
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Jan 12 '14
I don't even believe Magnussen is dead now
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Jan 13 '14
I'm partially convinced that the Season 5 finale will be the Cab driver from S01E01 walking in
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u/snukb Jan 12 '14
Okay, did anyone else think that Sherlock had a plan to have Magnussen shot by Mycroft's men? When Mycroft kept saying "step away from that man"? Magnussen kept saying "It's all in my head!" it would have made much more sense that Mycroft's men should have shot Magnussen.
The proof for all his... pressure... was all in his head. No physical proof. Kill Magnussen, the proof all dies with him. Was NOT expecting it to go like it did...
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u/wrenny20 Jan 12 '14
Sherlock looks good in a hoodie...
Otherwise: slightly intrigued, slightly confused, really, really hoping it's not two years until the next series, but.... the way they filmed it (especially after Sherlock got shot and was debating which way to fall etc. with molly and everyone and I just ahhhhhh) I thought it was really clever.
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u/All_Witty_Taken Jan 12 '14
Just saying. Having a partner conceal their entire identity from me for over a year and finding out because my best friend worked it out and was also shot by them.
Bit of a deal breaker for me.
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u/chasethelight Jan 16 '14
I really hate this. I loved Mary, after preparing to hate her. As soon as I was used to actually liking someone who got in the way of Johnlock being a thing, she turns out to be evil. And just when I had let her go and was ready for John to dump her, he fucking decides to keep her. I just can't. This whole watching Sherlock thing causes way too much pain.
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u/Crafty_McGee Jan 12 '14
I'm sure everyone knows about Johns blog? I was looking through it and ended up reading the post about the empty hearse, and in the comments its all the characters talking about how great it is that Sherlock is back. Then I noticed a comment from one Mike Stamford:
Everyone's back! We all live!
Mike Stamford 9 November
"We all live!" "We"
My theory, Mike Stamford is the Real Moriarty. Don't believe me? What did Mike tell John he did for a living when they met in S1E1? Teaching at Barts Hospital. Which would make him a...PROFESSOR. Prof. James Moriarty.
(Possibly clutching at straws, I know. But leave me alone, I'm excited.)
(Also, Sorry if this has already been mentioned as a theory, didn't read that many theories)
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Jan 13 '14
I like this theory. This is like a super high budget soap, so many twists! THERE'S A HOSPITAL SCENE TOO! And the wedding, and a death, and then a not death, and a pregnancy. I love it!!
Sorry I really went off tangent there oh god I'm so thrilled.
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u/lemming64 Jan 12 '14
Thought Moriarty shooting himself at the end of S2 was always too easy.
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u/JackWilfred Jan 12 '14
I do too, but I still like the idea, that he's mad enough to shoot himself just to beat Sherlock.
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u/CountOlafAMA Jan 12 '14
CAN MOFFAT KEEP ANY CHARACTER DEAD? Or is that roof just incapable of keeping people down?
So pleased Andrew Scott is back :D But it was dismal how little we saw of Rupert Graves this series :/
And the return of Benedict's parents was delightful! :)
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Jan 12 '14
I love how we saw little Sherlock after he shot Cam. Because we were seeing Sherlock through Mycroft's eyes...he always sees Sherlock as this little impudent child whom he doesn't want to admit is more brilliant then himself...or so we think. He loves him really, he sees little sherlock because thats his little brother and he loves him. AWW.
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u/bigboss2014 Jan 13 '14
But mycroft is fundamentally better than sherlock at everything... it isn't an underdog story.
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u/stunner1 Jan 13 '14
I love how series 1 ended with John putting a bullet in the bad guy to save Sherlock, and series 3 ends with Sherlock putting a bullet in the bad guy to save John and his wife. Full circle.
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u/gamesqueen Jan 12 '14
Not sure I'm happy that Moriarty is back.
I'm worried they're doing what Doctor Who keeps doing - bringing the same people back with the explanations getting more and more farfetched as time goes on.
That being said, Moriarty is such a good character (I genuinely believed at one point that he wasn't Moriarty and it was all a conspiracy when he was Richard Brook) that it would be fantastic to have him back.
I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with this. I'm not looking forward to waiting.
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u/thetoastmonster Jan 12 '14
You see, Moriarty was just timelocked in a bubble universe, and Sherlock had to explode Baker Street to cause a crack in the fabric of spacetime for him to come back.
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u/TheLonelyDust Jan 12 '14
Okay. So Moffat said that Moriarty IS dead. But what if this Moriarty that comes back is just the Moriarty Idea. If you read the comments on John's blog there's people posting (Anonymous, msmoneypenny, TheRealJoe, and Sauron976) who seem to be idolizing or still denying the fact that Sherlock isn't a fake. I think that these fans come together and make a group that is hell bent on proving that Sherlock is a fake and reviving the idea of Moriarty/Brooks. I think that the next season there isn't going to be just ONE baddy. But instead the baddy will be a group of people, all with specific skill sets and it's up to John, Sherlock, and Mary? to work together to disband this group who idolizes Moriarty.
Also I have the chair that Magnussen sits in when he's in his awesome white room.
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u/ScottFromScotland Jan 12 '14
Wish I wasn't right about them not showing us how Sherlock survived.
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u/tomothy94 Jan 12 '14 edited Jan 12 '14
Me too - But now i'm hoping that next season we might see Moriarty and Sherlock both discussing how they did it with each other in some sort of intellectual standoff. This would be my idea of perfection. I just hope they at least attempt to wrap it up.
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u/Seifer_Almasy Jan 12 '14 edited Jan 12 '14
My only regret for this episode is it appears there are no consiquences for Sherlock for what happened. But who knows, we will see in 2 years. Other than that very good episode.
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u/enlighghtened Jan 12 '14
They need Sherlock more than they care to admit. Even in exile he was going to be on an undercover mission until his death.
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u/usercame Jan 12 '14
I like this tweet on the subject... https://twitter.com/sacha_is_good/status/422489415621935105
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Jan 12 '14
I sort of agree there, but then I was sort of surprised he was punished at all. They could have just pretended that it didn't happen, or that Sherlock didn't do it, and played the whole "Oh, shame. Looks like somebody finally got revenge revenge," card. Yes there were witnesses, but Mycroft could have done that thing he did with Anderson and his companion at the beginning of the episode when Sherlock mentioned Magnussen. That might have been too easy though. I'm honestly still surprised that Sherlock even killed him, but it was for the greater good wasn't it?
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u/JCLNZ Jan 13 '14
Possible explanations for 'Moriarty Hack':
1- Moriarty is dead and some unknown Villain is trolling Sherlock, Mycroft and co with the 'Moriarty Hack' (possibly Sebastian Moran).
2- Moriarty is dead and Sherlock created the 'Moriarty Hack' to save himself from presumed certain death 'out east'- he has shown proficiency to hack in the past.
3- Moriarty is dead and Mycroft (alone) created the 'Moriarty Hack' to save his brother from presumed certain death 'out east'- in this explanation Mycroft would have created the Hack without the knowledge of the British Government.
4- Moriarty is dead and The British Government (probably led by Mycroft) created the 'Moriarty Hack' to justify saving Sherlock from death, thus being able to utilize his skills in the future.
5- Moriarty is dead and Mary created the 'Moriarty Hack' to save Sherlock from presumed certain death 'out east' and to repay him for protecting her identity.
6- Moriarty faked his own death at the end of Season 2 and is alive and well, creating the 'Moriarty Hack' himself- HE IS BACK.
7- The man who we believed to be Moriarty is dead (shot on the rooftop), but the REAL Moriarty is alive and has just been using Richard Brooks to 'be' him the whole time.
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u/watsnov Jan 13 '14
Hearing moriarty talking about "pressure points" in season 2 made me think that him and Magnusson could maybe be connected? Any thoughts? Here's the scene 30 seconds in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN7DYPJLXkc
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u/_scholar_ Jan 12 '14
Episode was a definite return to form, though the ending to CAM was pretty predictable once it was revealed there weren't any vaults at all. Kind of disappointed he's just a one and done character since he had a lot of potential as a creepy long term threat.
Not really sure I like the Moriarty twist, I hope they at least do a better job explaining it than they did with Sherlocks "death".
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u/Zircon88 Jan 12 '14
That's how he dies in the canon though - a bullet to the brain (albeit by a former victim, which could have been Mary in the TV show). This is followed by Sherlock swiftly burning all the documents in his safe.
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u/sylux024 Jan 12 '14
Maybe the end of season 4 will have him on TV's saying 'Did you miss me?'
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u/BellisBlueday Jan 12 '14
Nice reference to M and James Bond from Mycroft - 'my colleague says the country sometimes needs a blunt instrument' or along those lines
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u/Whenbirdsattack Jan 12 '14
notice the timing of Moriarty's broadcast... as sherlock said just 4 minutes after he left. Is it a coincidence? What does Mycroft say about coinicidences? Moriarty was either waiting for Mugnussen to be dead or he didn't want sherlock to leave so that he could toy with him and then kill him himself. I want to believe the former because that could lead to some interesting backstory.
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u/peon47 Jan 12 '14
My theory:
Richard Brook was an actor. Hired by the real Moriarty to be his public face. He killed himself on the roof because Moriarty had told him that if booth he and Sherlock came back alive, his family would be killed. It would also explain his "SOOO changeable" bit at the pool the first time he revealed himself. He went off-script, and then the real Moriarty told him to get back in there and finish off Holmes.
The real Moriarty is just using his face for his broadcast because it's recognisable, but the guy we met is still dead.
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u/chocolate_on_toast Jan 12 '14
I missed this at the time but... Porn Preference: Normal
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u/mikejohnno Jan 12 '14
Scumbag Sherlock:
Says "Did you miss me?"
Makes you wait two years.
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u/Tomguydude Jan 14 '14 edited Jan 14 '14
"This Charles guy is a complete dick. I hope John punches him"
5 MINUTES LATER
"JESUS CHRIST SHERLOCK; THAT WAS TOO FAR!"
EDIT: "Well that was a good episode, I think I'll go... 'Did you miss me?'... WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK".
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u/Banerman Jan 12 '14
I don't care how they do it, Season 4 is going to be fucking amazing.
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Jan 12 '14 edited Jan 12 '14
Anyone else think that was rather anticlimactic? Build it all up only to just have the bad guy shot?
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Jan 12 '14
Thought it was a good dose of reality, you can be as powerful as you like, won't stop someone just blowing your head off
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u/buttercup_ Jan 12 '14 edited Jan 12 '14
God, I loved that episode. So many different theories were right but came together in a way I didn't foresee. A couple of thoughts:
I really thought the cliffhanger ending was going to be Sherlock's arrest, and was sort of underwhelmed. BUT THEN JIM CAME BACK AND I WAS SO HAPPY! Sorry. I think it's a bit much how nobody ever really dies, but honestly, I don't even care - the character is just so great I'm willing to suspend my disbelief.
(Are we sure he's actually alive? Does the post-credits scene confirm it (since it's actually him in person)? I mean, it is possible that someone else in his network could use that kind of stunt to fake Moriarty's return and wreak havoc, but I hope not. I always found his suicide a little hard to accept, and it would be cruel to leave us speculating on that scene for two more years and have it be a hoax.)
I also really like how they handled Mary - I would have been quite disappointed if she had died or turned out to be completely evil.
(And she was right - danger addict John at the beginning of the episode was surprisingly appealing.)
The mind palace scenes after Sherlock was shot were amazing, too. I love the role Molly plays - but how depressing (and revealing) is it that the place he goes when he's on the brink of dying is the dungeon where he hides Moriarty? (AH, I'm so excited to see more interactions with these two!)
EDITED to add another point: I've always been so curious about Sherlock's relationship with drugs and what he'd actually be like while high, so that was really gratifying as well.
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u/Colossal_Chaz Jan 12 '14
Well if I learnt anything from that episode, its that Magnussen isn't dead either!
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Jan 13 '14
So we all know that the kid is going to be called Sheryl Watson, right?
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u/TheCardsharkAardvark Jan 12 '14 edited Jan 12 '14
I feel like the Moriartys (Moriartii?) showing up on the telly screens might be a ploy by Sherlock, Mycroft, or maybe Miss Mary to save Sherlock. Edit: Or maybe Irene?
Also, the other brother Mycroft refers to is probably a reference to Sherrinford Holmes, Sherlock's and Mycroft's theoretical eldest sibling.
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u/zthrowawayz1001 Jan 12 '14
Rule one of Moffat TV: NO ONE DIES. EVER. Rule two of Moffat TV: IF SOMEONE DIED BEFORE WE CAN BRING THEM BACK.
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u/lemabeuf Jan 12 '14
This last episode was much better than the previous two, but I still think they dumbed him down this season...
I saw the mind palace thing coming a mile off, there's no way Sherlock wouldn't have
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Jan 12 '14
He told John to bring the gun, why are we assuming he didn't realise it?
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u/Athaene Jan 13 '14
I think sherlock drastically underestimated Magnussen's ability to store information, which is how he may have been able to overlook it. Magnussen's mind palace was significantly better than Sherlock's (recall that sherlock has to "delete" excess info whereas Magnussen does not), and I believe Sherlock simply thought that no one could store more than he could, which was his mistake.
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u/Leckere Jan 12 '14
Nah, he shot himself in the fucking head. Bringing Moriarty back would be the Sherlock equivalent of Doctor Who bringing back 100% dead characters, or characters who have served their purpose (The Master, Rose, Daleks over and over again).
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u/love_otter Jan 13 '14
I in no way think Moriarty is alive. They had like a three second loop of altered speech and two frames of a gif, hardly hard evidence. This was orchestrated by someone to keep Sherlock out of prison, that's my theory.
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u/1184programs Jan 14 '14
Did anyone else fall apart at the Redbeard scene? That was the most heart-wrenching thing I've seen in a long time.
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Jan 13 '14
I'm just surprised how few people have mentioned that the mere thought of John being in danger was enough to literally bring Sherlock back from the dead.
FROM THE GODDAMN DEAD, PEOPLE.
This episode was pretty amazing.
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u/melneko92 Jan 12 '14
Maybe its one of Moriarty's henchman? (using stock images/videos that Moriarty filmed prior to shooting himself in the brains? and the henchman is acting on Moriarty's behalf?).
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u/Kemuel Jan 12 '14 edited Jan 12 '14
I thought the ending was gonna be a very cynical look at the power of governments to make people disappear. Like, once it was announced that there was no vault, the security forces were gonna kill Magnussen and it would come out in the papers that Sherlock had revealed something about him or discovered some crime.
Still, this is cool. Of course we fucking missed you. We missed you completely. We were looking at the other fucker. The entire internet was trying to work out how Sherlock survived, and now we're being goaded into trying to work out how Moriarty survived. Fucking brilliant.
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u/Archfiend32 Jan 13 '14
I think we've all learned a valuable lesson this evening. Don't urinate in Sherlock Holmes's fire place.
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u/TCass29 Jan 13 '14
"One day we'll be standing around a body, and Sherlock Holmes will be the one that put it there."
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Jan 21 '14
No wonder all throughout the episode Magnussen reminded me of Hannibal/Mads Mikkelsen, it was his fucking brother! That's awesome!
I don't know what's more mind blowing this or the ending.
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Jan 12 '14
I just wanna take the time to start sobbing real hard with you guys. I can't even take it.
"The problems of your past are your business, the problems of your future are my privilege"
Like. What do I do with myself. I don't understand.
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u/varunpramanik Jan 13 '14
What if, when Magnussen said Sherlock had made a big mistake that would endanger everyone’s lives, he meant that Sherlock assumed Moriarty was dead when he actually isn’t?
I wager that Sherlock already knew Magnussen didn’t really have a physical archive. He deduced that Magnussen had a mind palace when he saw that his glasses weren’t feeding him anything. He knew there was nothing to find by going to Magnussen’s place. So the only way for Sherlock to get rid of Magnussen was to kill him. That’s why he asked John if he had his gun before they got on the helicopter.
But, Sherlock didn’t know Moriarty was still alive. Nobody knew… except Magnussen. Magnussen knows everything and he is the most powerful man in the western world. It’s very likely he knew about Moriarty, if not colluded with him.
So, in conclusion, what was Sherlock’s big mistake in Magnussen’s view? Sherlock being willing to accept imprisonment in return for taking Magnussen’s life. If Sherlock was in prison, there would be no way for him to protect the people he cares about.
I’d love to hear thoughts on this.
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u/bobthereddituser Jan 13 '14
I think something was missed. Sherlock said Magnussen's mistake was showing the letters at the end of the pissing scene. What was the significance of showing the letters if all the evidence was in a mind palace? It seems to me that there actually is a vault somewhere, and Magnussen was just trying to cop out of his deal.
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u/threeoneoh Jan 13 '14
There were a lot of worrisome Doctor Who-esque analogues this episode, in my opinion. The series is scarily bringing to mind the fundamental Dragonball Z problem. There's always someone out there portrayed as the most dangerous person Sherlock has ever met, and then in the next season Sherlock claims he's met an even more dangerous adversary. I really hope that Sherlock doesn't become another drama recycling series.
Is Moffat really bringing back characters from the dead? I hope not, since that simply trivializes the outstanding drama portrayed at the end of the second season. Furthermore, it trivializes the drama of present and future deaths. I wouldn't be surprised if CAM is still alive...
What happened to the wit and intensity of Seasons 1 and 2? The series seems to be changing its direction. Regarding the beginning of the episode, in which Sherlock comes back from being away for a month, and then explaining to John all of the work that he had been doing: I would much rather prefer starting from the beginning of a case rather than being thrown into it from John's perspective. I felt alienated from the case from the start of the episode. The wit of the first and second season was that in those episodes, we followed Sherlock and Watson through the whole case. We experienced the buildup and drama. I didn't really get that from this episode. /rant
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u/winstonsecularhill Jan 14 '14
I have to imagine George R. R. Martin has a fairly low opinion of Moffat.
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Jan 17 '14
My favourite part of the episode was Magnussen's final speech, the whole " I have no evil plan, I'm a businessman acquiring assets was perfectly scripted and delivered I thought.
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u/Froznknight Jan 19 '14
Blame it on being an American, but the moment it was revealed that there was no backup, I just kept repeating "shoot him shoot him shoot him" in my head...how did he not see that coming?
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u/raginmund Jan 30 '14
Most everyone in the comments is theorizing that Moriarty is in fact dead, and that the scene at the end of the show and the scene after the credits were created via soundbites and video clips from before his death. Personally, I think that that is far too easy to be the actual truth. To put it simply, since most everyone here in the comments thinks that it is true that Moriarty is dead, it is probably not what Gatiss and Moffat have in mind for him. It could be that he's alive, and that would seem predictable given the ending, but so is thinking "oh he's still dead, those were just conveniently recorded before his death." Also, since Moriarty is essentially Holmes' equal in intellect, do you think it would be too much to assume that Moriarty predicted that Sherlock would fake his death, and to initiate his plan, he faked his death as well? I'm sure that Moriarty could have thought "I can fake my death to make Sherlock die, but he's probably going to fake his too. I'm having too much fun to kill him though, so let's see how this unfolds." BANG a fake gunshot goes off, fake blood sprays out of Moriarty's blood pouch hidden under a few hair plugs. He falls to the ground and the only thing Sherlock knows to do at this moment is panic because his friends are in danger. He turns his back to Moriarty, stands on the ledge and the call with John ensues. Meanwhile, Moriarty is laying there, playing dead, and thinking about his next move.
IMO it would be stupid of them to have Moriarty be this digital enigma knowing just enough information to toy with everyone even after his death. He can't wow anyone that way. It seems too... meh. I don't know how else to put it. And if these pre-recordings held some sort of merit, it would be super cheesy if there were "a new villain, pulling the strings behind the scenes using Moriarty's face as a catalyst for nationwide panic." It seems too... James Bond-y. Moriarty needs to be alive, hidden, and chaotic.
Also, wouldn't it be crazy if Sherlock's conversation with Moriarty, after Sherlock was shot, was real? Almost as if his mind was sent into such a state of shock that Moriarty seemed like just a memory to him, but he was actually standing over him and harassing him after Mary was long gone?
TL;DR - I just really want Moriarty to be alive for real.
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Jan 12 '14
Theories on how Moriarty survived.
He somehow got a twin/body double on the roof
The guy on the roof did shoot himself but the real Moriarty is a different person acting behind closed doors. Perhaps Richard Brook is real and was pressured/blackmailed into pretending he was Moriarty and killing himself on the roof.
He actually did die and someone else is broadcasting the 'Miss me?' message to get Sherlock back into the country.
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u/Maridiem Jan 12 '14
Well wow. That was one hell of an episode! Really exciting, really well written - massive twists, though the Mary story was a bit unsatisfying I must admit.
But those last 30 minutes were a massive powerhouse. Can't wait for Series 4! Did you miss me?
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u/notinsidethehouse Jan 13 '14
Was anyone else... really disappointed and unhappy with the ending?
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u/werty1432k Jan 14 '14
Was anyone else annoyed that in the end Sherlock didn't outsmart Magnussen, he just shot him in the head?
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u/systemstheorist Jan 12 '14
I more curious how Moriarty Survived the gunshot then how Sherlock survived last season!
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u/Thedestinypie Jan 12 '14
next year they will both question each other on how they survived and we will
a.) find out how both Sherlock and Jim survived
or
b.) They are both to stubborn to tell each other
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Jan 13 '14 edited Jan 13 '14
Did anyone else notice the billboard behind john when he pulls up to the heroin house? It was tattered and showed part of 3 billboards that appear to say, but not directly, and I'm going off of memory perhaps someone has a screen shot: " Free is the Power to change".
EDIT: Nevermind, i missread it, you're supposed to take away " Information if Power" the villians creed.
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Jan 13 '14
Sherlock took the Poirot way out, but instead of actually winning he did it as a last resort. Am I the only one that feels as though Sherlock has been dumbed down immensely? I'm not sure that he's outsmarted one villain this entire season. I've been disappointed with this season and the "Oh, let's have Sherlock shoot a man and not face justice" finale was ridiculous.
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u/nodinc Jan 14 '14
In case this has not been mentioned yet, I think the real mystery here is Redbeard. Surely I've missed something, but isn't it odd that CAM knows about Redbeard? How in the world could he know that...unless it was in the news.
We're thinking it's a dog right? First off, what an odd name for a dog. Second, for CAM to know about Sherlock's childhood pet is a stretch. Especially with the tone that CAM mentions Redbeard, it would be like my nemesis looking me in the eye and saying "fluffy" and I would go "what?" So, there's a whole lot more to it, much more than should be centered around a dog, no matter how terrible an end the dog might have had.
So, I'm thinking the memory house image of the dog, and the redbeard reference is linked to a childhood incident. A newsworthy one, and perhaps there's no dog at all but some sort of psychological representation because what happened has too much trauma for Sherlock. Maybe even something to do with Mycroft's other brother comment at the end?
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u/burnoutthesun Jan 20 '14
i'm sure this is going to get lost in the sea of comments that are late to the party, but i think molly hooper may be moriarty. i am aware that her reaction to the tv at the end is a counterpoint to this theory, but hear me out.
she is the only character in the series that isn't in the books. molly is obsessed with sherlock. moriarty signs his name "M." moriarty killed the old woman for trying to describe his voice. molly conveniently was omitted from moriarty's list of sherlock's friends. sherlock carefully dismantled all of moriarty's criminal syndicate, so it most likely isn't any of his associates.
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u/Lorielus Jan 13 '14
First of all, let me caveat by saying I really enjoy Sherlock and it's generally exceptionally well written.
Am I being overly pedantic, or was this episode pretty poorly thought out?
In no particular order:
Why exactly wouldn't it occur to Sherlock, or anyone with any familiarity with modern technology, that knowledge of GPS tracking of protected devices is a thing? It's seems just silly that Sherlock doesn't think the bad guy would figure out the tracking on the laptop.
The bad guy's "I don't have to prove it, I just need to print it" is a nice line, but not in any way true. If a single person ever called his bluff, he'd be finished - it's just not plausible in the slightest, newspapers print and are forced to retract untrue or unprovable stories fairly regularly. Can you damage someone with unproven allegations? Of course. Can you control countries? That's just plain silly.
Why does Sherlock shoot him? It's completely unnecesary. The guy has just confessed he doesn't actually have any proof of anything. Sherlock/Watson could, you know, just tell Mycroft that, rendering the guy completely impotent? ("Mycroft, this dude doesn't actually have evidence of anything, you can feel free to put him in prison for blackmail and break his knees as an excellent intelligence source whenever you feel like it.")
What exactly was Sherlock's plan? Have the guy arrested for holding top secret information, when Mycroft already knows he has top secret information? If he's untouchable because he can blackmail his way out of trouble, then why would it make any difference?
I honestly thought it was pretty poorly plotted out, despite being an enjoyable watch.
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u/cdr268 Jan 12 '14
Now that was brilliant! I was getting a bit worried as the first two episodes of the series weren't as good as i come to expect with Sherlock. But that episode was epic!
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u/AlderaanRefugee Jan 12 '14
Quick question: why was Mary going to kill Magnessun? He knew about her past life but what was he doing with the information?
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Jan 12 '14
Well, seems like we were way off on some things. Mary, Mycroft and Molly all alive and well. Surprising.
I thought Mycroft for sure was a goner after he said the loss of Sherlock would break his heart.
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u/SPD_emergency Jan 12 '14
There you have Magnussen, being all cold and calculating and cruelly brilliant. Then Moriarty comes for 10 seconds and steals the show. Mind blowing, this episode.
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u/StricklyPro Jan 12 '14
I don't understand all of this stuff about "Moffat Lied!". Nowhere has it been said Moriarty is alive. My theory is that it's someone or something continuing his legacy.
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u/bamburger Jan 13 '14
So Moriarty got killed definitively by bullet to the brain, but the actor/character was very popular. Moffat obviously wants to bring him back somehow.
In season 3 they bring him back in weird fan theory skits and in the mind palace. This is ok, but not ideal, because he never advances or effects the plot.
A better solution is to reveal an elaborate plan made pre-death involving lots of recorded footage of himself that gets shown to Sherlock throughout the series. This way we get to see Moriarty on screen (and so does Sherlock) and he gets to be the main villain, but his on screen death still stands.
I think it's a very good solution, and it definitely suits Moriarty's character. "I'm so much smarter than Sherlock I can out play him even after I'm dead." Is exactly the sort of motive that would drive Moriarty to kill himself.
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u/strikeuhpose Jan 13 '14
So, why didn't Mary just shoot Magnussen? Did she really have to shoot Sherlock? Am I missing something?
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u/Fizzysist Jan 13 '14 edited Jan 13 '14
I quite like the idea that Moriarty was/is using Sherlock to work out all the flaws in his organization (the two years going around destroying everything) just so he could rebuild it again -- but better.
"MoriartyCo, an organized crime network. Barely alive. Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the technology. We have the capability to build the world's most fabulous crime network. MoriartyCo will be that network. Better than it was before. Better, stronger, fabulous-er.
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u/plasma_evil Jan 14 '14
I have been thinking...was it necessary for Mary to shoot Sherlock? Could not she just knock Magnussen out and explain the situation to Sherlock?
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u/CleardelaMoon Jan 19 '14
I think that it is very telling that John murdered the cabbie to save Sherlock barely 24 hours of meeting him and then they giggled about it.
However, when confronted by CAM that he was going to basically kill Mary (and child) by telling her enemies where to find her John does nothing even though the gun was in his coat. I felt like Sherlock was waiting for him to react and when he didn't he took the gun and did the deed himself.
In fact, John was ready to die for Sherlock in the pool scene of The Great Game. This kind of illustrates John pecking order of "loves".
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u/chaosanc Jan 13 '14
Here are my thoughts, would love some 'feedback'.
Pros:
Editing has gotten amazing and very interesting. Love a lot of the in-sherlock's-mind stuff they're doing (eg. after being shot). Feels much more polished than most TV shows.
The characters and interactions are completely engaging and the casting is top notch.
Good sense of humour
CAM was interesting...
I did enjoy Moriarty
Cons:
Light on the mystery. I felt that even this recent episode wasn't straightforward mystery. A lot of hidden threads and it happened in a very sporadic manner, meaning it was impossible to guess ahead or know anything until it was over.
Moriarty being alive (possibly). If he is, I'm not sure how i feel about Sherlock essentially having a recurring villain (I always thought of Sherlock as a case by case show for the most part). Also, what intriguing plot will they cook up? They've already had Moriarty endanger Sherlock in the most apocalyptic way possible. Now it feels... almost playful. Light.
Sherlock MAY have jumped the shark. It's impossible to tell until we see Series 4, but it has become increasing convoluted and preposterous in comparison to the relative... low-key-ness of the first two series. They just felt like two guys solving mysteries. Now everything feels... grander? Messier? More intertwined? I don't know how to explain it but I kind of miss the simple days.
Conclusion: Overall I enjoyed the Series. But I'm less sure about the change in direction of it. Series 4 will tell me for sure, since there are less loose ends to pick up (than this series). Should be a 'fresh start' of sorts. But goddamn, nothing gripped me in the absolutely stunning way last finale did. And I don't feel adequately satisfied with the payoff to that particular finale. It's been a weird series.
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u/BoltThrower79 Jan 13 '14
Sherlock takes off Magnussen's glasses and I'm like "OFCOURSE! Google Glass!"
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u/InternetIsHard Jan 12 '14 edited Jan 12 '14
I was right about Magnussen dying, ha!
Holy shit Moriarty is back????
I loved John being a BAMF, then Mycroft being a BAMF, Sherlock being a BAMF too.... Molly was awesome, Mr. Hudson bits were awesome... Mary is a bloody ASSASSIN!
I love this show so much, two years of wait were bloody worth it.
Magnussen was the creepiest thing ever.
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u/GoFlight Jan 12 '14
"To the very best of times, John."