r/photography • u/prbphoto • Sep 18 '13
Official "Should I work for free?" Thread.
Working for free can be for a family friend, shooting for "experience/exposure/portfolio," for your 9-5 day job, etc. Basically, any time that you're asked to provide photography without being compensated monetarily.
The replies in this thread will be broken down into two categories: "Yes, if..." and "No, if..." Under each response is where you should put your answer/advice. Please keep all replies under the two main categories (anything else will be removed).
6
u/prbphoto Sep 18 '13
No, if...
16
u/lilgreenrosetta instagram.com/davidcohendelara Sep 18 '13
No, if...
...it's the client idea that you should work for free.
"We have no money to pay you, but..." is a dead giveaway. If they are a business they have money, but they just don't want to give it to you.
If they say it will be a fantastic experience or great exposure, that is probably a lie. And even if it isn't a lie, it should be up to you to decide, not them.
If they say this free job will lead to paid jobs in the future, just get it in writing with actual dollar amounts. If they can't do that, they're probably lying.
No, if...
...it's for a facebook friend you don't even like and who probably won't do anything for you.
You have better things to do with your time so fuck them. Be polite, but tell them you can't do it.
4
u/loc1281 Sep 18 '13
No, if... it's an old friend that hasn't spoken to you in years, sees your photos on facebook of family you took for free, catches up with you and then slips in that they want a photoshoot with their significant other.
4
u/SenorPorkchop Sep 19 '13
No, if....
You want to make the move to professional photography. Professionals know their work has value from day one.
They offer 'credit' in lieu of money. Fuck that noise. Credit gets you nothing and certainly doesn't pay for that new lens you need.
The pay is way below market rate. If you take that job then you are part of the problem and screwing the market for other photographers in your area.
5
u/photojack Sep 18 '13
No, if you ever want to be respected and get real work from that client. You are now the "free and/or very cheap" photographer in their minds. When they "have money" because the job is more important to them, they will now want a "real" photographer or "better" photographer, even if you can in reality do a better job. It's easy to go down in price, it's almost impossible to go up a category.
3
u/lilgreenrosetta instagram.com/davidcohendelara Sep 18 '13
Truth. I've listed a few situations in the "Yes, if..." section but none of those really apply to regular commercial clients. With commercial clients, you charge your rate. Because if you give a discount without there being a very good reason, that discounted rate then becomes your rate.
1
u/ChiefBromden Sep 18 '13
I disagree. I do some free work from time to time. Depends on a few things, social media presence, etc. For instance, I just shot a model for free, and in turn, received about 10 paying inquiries as a result. When I do, I invoice them for what it would have cost and then full discount the bottom line, but they see what my rates are. I'd say, if I do get a second job with them, it's paying. I also do referral work. If I shoot someone, say a model (I shoot a lot of beauty/nude) refers a paying friend to me, I have no problem shooting the referring model for free/discount. It's helped my business grow to where, right now, I'm booked almost through October.
1
u/de1irium Sep 23 '13
I just shot a model for free, and in turn, received about 10 paying inquiries as a result.
With all due respect, something like this is incredibly rare. I'm certainly not saying it didn't happen to you, but others reading this shouldn't necessarily expect those kinds of results.
2
u/ChiefBromden Sep 23 '13
I didn't get all 10 jobs, I got maybe 3-4 so far out of the 10 inquiries, sorry if that was misleading.
I don't just blindly hope in one hand though, when I shoot for free. In this particular instance, I know that this model was part of a pretty decent sized network of people who needed/need shoots and she has a lot of influence/pull. So ,I was relying on a little more than just 'word of mouth'. It was also discussed beforehand that follow-up shoots would be at standard rate (which, she was invoiced for, then discounted). We even discussed scheduling for follow up shoots. She was basically looking for a steady photographer to provide content on a regular basis for her website. The first shoot, she understood couldn't be used commercially and was just personal. I knew she needed commercial work, and I knew no one else could do it better than me. Worth it.
-22
u/gkirsch Sep 18 '13
No, if you're taking work away from a professional photographer.
18
u/lilgreenrosetta instagram.com/davidcohendelara Sep 18 '13
You're always taking work from another photographer, whether you should paid or free. Welcome to the free market.
0
u/gkirsch Sep 19 '13
Of course, if you're getting paid then you're a professional too (versus an amateur who is unpaid) and that's fine. I just think there are too many photographers willing to give their work away - usually because they earn their living in another profession. This makes it difficult for all photographers to get the compensation they deserve for their talent and effort.
1
-7
u/grape_juice_nigz Sep 18 '13
It's amazing how many nasty people there are in the world who would rather shoot horribly than let a professional do it.
4
u/Abruzzix Sep 18 '13
So no amateur photographer should ever shoot? They have to get the experience from somewhere, correct?
0
u/grape_juice_nigz Sep 18 '13
I'm not a professional but I wouldn't go shooting a large wedding because I want experience.
3
Oct 13 '13
I certainly would, but not as the primary photographer. I'd go as a backup or assistant in order to get the experience.
69
u/ChiefBromden Sep 18 '13
Regardless if it's for free...ALWAYS provide an invoice documenting what the work WOULD have cost. A completely breakdown, then just put the complete discount on the bottom. ALWAYS.
24
u/redcremesoda Sep 18 '13
This is a really smart idea. It demonstrates the true value of your favor and word won't spread that you're a free hand.
And in case anyone asks, you cannot write off time spent working for non-profits (ie your usual hourly rate given for free) on US taxes.
4
u/bulksalty Sep 18 '13
You generally can write off expenses incurred while volunteering at non-profits (including milage) if you incur any.
4
u/redcremesoda Sep 18 '13
This is correct, but some people mistakenly believe they can write off time-- ie this shoot normally would have cost $100 an hour so I'll write off $200 for two hours.
6
u/bulksalty Sep 18 '13
Very true, I just wanted to toss out that you can get a little bit back. If I could write off time, why I'd owe no taxes! 1 hour at $40,000/hr donated to the Joseph Barnsworth Home for Orphans anually and well tax man I think we're finished here.
7
u/mathematical Sep 18 '13
This is awesome advice. Surprisingly after all the "should I work for free/cheap?" posts, I have yet to read this. If I ever get good enough to actually take my hobby further, I'll be sure to do this.
4
u/darrenlgill Dec 31 '13
This is actually a great idea, I can't believe I never thought to do this. I have to implement this policy going into the new year
6
u/constipated_HELP Sep 18 '13
This is ridiculous. I do work for nonprofits for free, and this would be completely inappropriate. I'm not going to rub their noses in my nobility.
8
u/ChiefBromden Sep 18 '13
We'll have to agree to disagree. There is nothing inappropriate about this, even for a nonprofit. It's also great when tax season comes and you're writing off probono expenses. How is your photography business registered? Have you consulted your accountant? Also hoping you have a contract/releases signed too.
4
u/constipated_HELP Sep 18 '13 edited Sep 18 '13
Sole proprietorship.
I didn't bill habitat for humanity when I helped build a house when I was a teenager. This is no different.
Edit: also, you don't need to bill them to write off pro-bono expenses.
2
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u/lilgreenrosetta instagram.com/davidcohendelara Sep 19 '13
I have worked for nonprofits at a discount and I always make sure to state the non-discounted costs on the invoice. If anything it just keeps things clear. Also if they ever decide to hire a paid photographer for this or another company, they'll have a better idea how much it will cost.
1
u/NoahtheRed =https://www.flickr.com/photos/33911967@N04/ Nov 19 '13
I've done work for non-profits and this is fairly normal actually. Many times, grants applications will ask for a full accounting of time spent and value of work (even if on a volunteer basis).
Example: I worked on a grant application for an art museum. This was going to pay for an exhibition that had an opening ceremony event with a photographer and light catering. In the past, both the photographer and catered had donated their services (caterer just charged for the price of the food). The application wanted a full list of prices and values for past events, regardless of whether they were discounted or done on a volunteer basis. The foundation offering the grant wanted to be sure we were on top of things financially and organizationally.
Now, I worked for museums mostly, but they almost always asked for an invoice of hours worked and value of time (even if volunteering) since I was basically a contractor.
Even in true volunteer situations, I'd do it just so they knew I was a professional should the time come they can afford to pay a professional. Consider it like advertising.
1
u/edcar257 Jan 09 '24
This is very late (but adding for the FAQ), but you should absolutely do this, or at least ask them: depending on how “niche” your services are and how they are being used, non-profits can count this “donation” as revenue (even if you can’t count it as an expense), which helps them release donor restricted funds, secure other funding, or report good news to the board, ect. If your NFP is worth their salt, they may actually want to know this information and need documentation of it
1
u/bycalin Dec 02 '13
I love this my friend!!! However, this will perpetuate a discount culture as now it is on paper :-). I would rather charge, but when you start, there might not be other alternatives, so you have to work for free. Instead starting at very low prices and hitting resistance every time you charge more, I would rather work for free for a while, build a portfolio and solidify my skills, then start charging what I am worth.
1
1
u/Disastrous_Cloud_484 Oct 24 '25
Working for Free is a Personal Choice, most of the Time. Although those Shooting for Free may be infringing on a “Paid Photographer’s” ability of his Skill and Experience to Create his Images that the Wedding Couples have actually “Paid Money” for the Professional Photographer to Create for them. So, Out of Respect for the Professional Photographer and the Wedding couple, please step back and wait your turn, you may catch a Stunning image at another Location.
1
13
u/prbphoto Sep 18 '13
Yes, if...